A load of hot air?

[d000hg]

Anecdotally, a couple my wife knows bought a house which had ASHPs. They were very noisy and bloody expensive to run (£500/qtr). They ended up replacing them with oil central heating.

Possibly old, crap ones? Seems to be an area moving quite quickly as they become mainstream and targeted at residential use?
I'd certainly like to see one running before committing, and check the specs on dB rating, etc.

[tazdevil]

Living in a big house in the countryside which has zilch energy efficiency with draughty bits everywhere I'm unlikely to move to air or ground source heat pumps. The house has big south facing windows providing solar heating and is dry given the level of ventilation With a solar panel installation providing ~£2400/year FIT's income, electricity use of ~£800/year and ~1800 litres of oil per year for the oil boiler I actually make money overall. I doubt the costs of converting to heat pumps could be recouped in my lifetime, if at all, and wouldn't give me or the planet a better scenario

[d000hg]

Living in a big house in the countryside which has zilch energy efficiency with draughty bits everywhere I'm unlikely to move to air or ground source heat pumps. The house has big south facing windows providing solar heating and is dry given the level of ventilation With a solar panel installation providing ~£2400/year FIT's income, electricity use of ~£800/year and ~1800 litres of oil per year for the oil boiler I actually make money overall. I doubt the costs of converting to heat pumps could be recouped in my lifetime, if at all, and wouldn't give me or the planet a better scenario

Have there been any comments made on canning oil-fuelled boilers in the same way as gas, or do you find yourself in a fortunate niche? Oil is typically used in more remote properties so maybe it's rare enough nobody cares but I wouldn't assume that stays the same. As I said earlier, it's not about saving money so you might find yourself stuck at some point... keep your ear to the ground!

[mattster]

I'd certainly like to see one running before committing, and check the specs on dB rating, etc.

Certainly worth waiting, however keen you might be. Heat pumps are still something of a niche product I guess, and if we really do end up installing tens of thousands a year over the next few years then surely the price will come plummeting down. I'm still unclear as to why they are as expensive as they are - the £20k+ figures for ground source seem a bit ridiculous if most of that is installation. Sure, its not cheap to dig a borehole or large trench, but at the end of the day it is still only a couple of tradesmen and a digger for a few days. Any idea what it is about the pumps themselves that costs so much to make? Or is it just an economies of scale thing that could change quite quickly?

[ladymuck]

It's obvious that heat pumps aren't suitable everywhere, and I don't think that the intention is to recommend that either. The aim is to remove gas as the heating source in homes and that could be replaced by heat pumps or it could be a boiler switched over to hydrogen. Each home owner would have to assess the right solution for their home.

[mattster]

It's obvious that heat pumps aren't suitable everywhere, and I don't think that the intention is to recommend that either. The aim is to remove gas as the heating source in homes and that could be replaced by heat pumps or it could be a boiler switched over to hydrogen. Each home owner would have to assess the right solution for their home.

There are electric boilers now with nearly 100% efficiency (equivalent to gas), that can be dropped into existing systems as a direct replacement for gas boilers. Far better IMO to spend £20k on really upping the insulation and adding a big solar pv array which will pay back the investment in perhaps 20 years or less, than spend the same on a heat pump which will actually cost you more to use at the historic gas/electric price ratio.

[d000hg]

Certainly worth waiting, however keen you might be. Heat pumps are still something of a niche product I guess, and if we really do end up installing tens of thousands a year over the next few years then surely the price will come plummeting down. I'm still unclear as to why they are as expensive as they are - the £20k+ figures for ground source seem a bit ridiculous if most of that is installation. Sure, its not cheap to dig a borehole or large trench, but at the end of the day it is still only a couple of tradesmen and a digger for a few days. Any idea what it is about the pumps themselves that costs so much to make? Or is it just an economies of scale thing that could change quite quickly?

I thought a GSHP required a big machine like used in pilings... they go 100 feet or more into the ground so it's not just a digger making a hole.
But yes one would certainly expect costs to drop both due to economies of scale, and more people able to fit them.

It's obvious that heat pumps aren't suitable everywhere, and I don't think that the intention is to recommend that either. The aim is to remove gas as the heating source in homes and that could be replaced by heat pumps or it could be a boiler switched over to hydrogen. Each home owner would have to assess the right solution for their home.

I did see hydrogen mentioned around the big "Green Plan" but it sounded like there isn't going to be any to spare for some time. Holding out on gas/oil an extra 10 years towards 2050 maybe the best option for many of us for who heat pumps aren't a good option.

[WTFH]

I thought a GSHP required a big machine like used in pilings... they go 100 feet or more into the ground so it's not just a digger making a hole.
But yes one would certainly expect costs to drop both due to economies of scale, and more people able to fit them.

GSHP can go deep or shallow loops at about 1-2 metres below the surface, depends on how much ground you have.

e.g.
https://www.kensaheatpumps.com/slinky-pipes/

[xoggoth]

Possibly old, crap ones? Seems to be an area moving quite quickly as they become mainstream and targeted at residential use?
I'd certainly like to see one running before committing, and check the specs on dB rating, etc.

Seen summit in the news, forget where, that they are likely to get rather cheaper in the future.

[xoggoth]

I thought a GSHP required a big machine like used in pilings... they go 100 feet or more into the ground

100 feet? I could probably find some oil in my area.