A load of hot air?

[d000hg]

With them being in the news again, has anyone got a heat pump - inherited one or had one installed?
Pretty sure my house is unsuitable but it's looking like the writing is on the wall... surely a whole demographic of houses will be untenable.

[mattster]

I really don't understand this government's obsession with heat pumps. OK, my understanding of the area in general is a little loose, so feel free to educate me, but I think there are a number of problems with simply advocating everyone switches over to heat pumps. First up, they run on electricity, which (historically, ignoring current hopefully-anomoly) has been about 3x the price of gas per kwh equivalent. So even with 300% efficiency of HPs, vs near 100% efficiency of current gas boilers you won't save a penny on energy costs by simply switching over. Secondly, don't they struggle to make very hot water? So no good for your hot water system, and not so great in a house heated by traditional radiators. Surely the first thing anyone would do is to up the insulation of the current housing stock. For the sort of money that a proper HP costs (£10-30k) you can do a real job on most houses; external wall insulation, warm roof systems etc. This should cut the heating requirements dramatically, both saving money and perhaps making a heat pump (+solar) a more attractive option. I think the current approach is bonkers but I haven't really been able to find a good in-depth discussion of it, or get a good idea of the rationale behind it.

Personally, I am looking into EWI tied into a warm roof (and a new roof while we're at it), with a decent solar array and battery storage as a first step. This would give added benefits of cooler house in summer, noise reduction etc (dormer bungalow, not really the best house design for insulation..). A lot of money, but we need a new roof anyway and current energy costs are making it more attractive proposition.

[d000hg]

It's not supposed to save you any money, that's why they're going to force you

The bold statements on banning new combustion engines and gas boilers in the '30s actually put GB at the forefront of ambition in such areas, but seem to be being made without any idea how we get there.
Maybe a deadline will force people to figure it out instead of saying it's not possible!

[mattster]

I imagine other countries might be doing something more sensible, like making sure insulation is up to scratch first. A proper system of grants/VAT reduction or whatever towards better insulation/doors/windows would be a start. The gimmick they brought in during covid was actually along the right lines, except it turned out to be nearly impossible to get the grant or find an installer in time to make use of it, and then they withdrew it.

[SueEllen]

Maybe a deadline will force people to figure it out instead of saying it's not possible!

They needs some sort of central agency that can help individual householders with that. May be give Dido a job?

[vetran]

Well Gas will go up.
Unless we frack we are at the mercy of Vlad!

They have millions of EPC certs (with the trade price at £30 they could have all dwellings done) they should have enough information to start planning.

If we have green electricity with storage allegedly its price will fall so heat pumps or exchangers make sense.

If we had embraced Passivhaus decades ago we wouldn't need heating!

[ns1]

Ground source heat pumps are the most efficient because they extract heat from underground which is >10degC even in the middle of winter. But only a small % of homes could install one of these.

Air source pumps don't work so well when you really need them ie. when it's bloody cold outside. They're a bit unsightly if fitted to outside walls.

I can't imagine heat pumps ever being very suitable for apartments.

[d000hg]

They needs some sort of central agency that can help individual householders with that. May be give Dido a job?

When people find they cannot buy a boiler they will have no other option. Many boilers only last a few years although I suspect we might find they are repairable when you can't get a new one.
House prices will jump "2029 boiler installed"

I imagine other countries might be doing something more sensible

I don't think so TBH. They just accept brownouts as part of the price of progress

Ground source heat pumps are the most efficient because they extract heat from underground which is >10degC even in the middle of winter. But only a small % of homes could install one of these.

Air source pumps don't work so well when you really need them ie. when it's bloody cold outside. They're a bit unsightly if fitted to outside walls.

I can't imagine heat pumps ever being very suitable for apartments.

We have land so (I assume) could get a GSHP but I believe they are an absolute fortune.
Communal buildings have the advantage that even if they don't enjoy centralised heating, they can do. Although that said, you see blocks of flats in warm countries where each has an A/C unit, so presumably the same could apply for an ASHP doing the opposite. But "central air" has to be more effective...

Do modern buildings not have massive GSHPs built underneath? That would sound an obvious thing to be doing.

[Gibbon]

They needs some sort of central agency that can help individual householders with that. May be give Dido a job?

What's singing 'White Flag' going to do?

[mattster]

If we have green electricity with storage allegedly its price will fall so heat pumps or exchangers make sense.

Electricity prices would have to fall a long way before this happens. Possible, I suppose, but I'm sceptical in this country. Parts of the US are < 5c/kwh. That would be nice. Proper sized roof solar and a battery will help, also using any EVs on the drive as batteries for the house.

If we had embraced Passivhaus decades ago we wouldn't need heating!

My dream before retirement is to have somewhere with at least near-passivehaus levels of insulation so I don't have to worry about spending my pension on heating (will I still get the annual heating bonus?). It's not a very exciting dream, but very practical.