Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[JHamp82]

I moved to Gorilla Accounting, some people recommended them in this thread. Gorilla seem to think they would not be deemed MSCP but who knows at this point.

I mentioned below in one of the other threads here:

When I queried Gorilla on the back of this latest HMRC investigation on CK and many other, I received below response.

All Gorilla’s advice is tailored to each client and we have no involvement in supplying workers, invoicing for their services or involved with the management of our clients company.

You can find some more detail here https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm3520 where it states: “Financial Secretary to HM Treasury said in Parliament on 15 May 2007: “there is a distinct difference…..between a person who provides independent, tailored advice to a client, who is then able to consider that advice before accepting it or rejecting it, and the person who simply supplies a client with a standard solution or product that the client accepts.”


I think this is pretty much what they do and have no involvement in my Ltd company. I am the one who take decisions for my company as a director. They have no control or influence over my decisions which pretty much sums up the legislation.

[Lotok]

I mentioned below in one of the other threads here:

When I queried Gorilla on the back of this latest HMRC investigation on CK and many other, I received below response.

All Gorilla’s advice is tailored to each client and we have no involvement in supplying workers, invoicing for their services or involved with the management of our clients company.

You can find some more detail here https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm3520 where it states: “Financial Secretary to HM Treasury said in Parliament on 15 May 2007: “there is a distinct difference…..between a person who provides independent, tailored advice to a client, who is then able to consider that advice before accepting it or rejecting it, and the person who simply supplies a client with a standard solution or product that the client accepts.”


I think this is pretty much what they do and have no involvement in my Ltd company. I am the one who take decisions for my company as a director. They have no control or influence over my decisions which pretty much sums up the legislation.

I think most of us are in that boat. Boox certainly never managed mine or made decisions, yet by using their portal, we are in this position. To me their portal was just a modern way of managing it. I used the portal to manage things, not Boox. yet, because that portal came with a monthly fee, we find outselves here. I don't think we are out of the woods though.

I have emailed the esimscteam my appeal in April and a follow up since, but neither email was acknowledged. Might really need to phone them i think.

[DealorNoDeal]

I think Gorilla, and probably other firms, are being a tad complacent.

I've seen this before with the schemes. Firms saying we're not like "them", only to later end up getting clobbered.

If CK/Boox lose, all bets are off as to who HMRC will go after next.

[cojak]

I think Gorilla, and probably other firms, are being a tad complacent.

I've seen this before with the schemes. Firms saying we're not like "them", only to later end up getting clobbered.

If CK/Boox lose, all bets are off as to who HMRC will go after next.

I agree.

My accountant was ticked off when I rejected his recommendation of minimum salary and badgered me for weeks before I had to suggest moving to an accountant who accepted my decisions.

[Fred Bloggs]

I agree.

My accountant was ticked off when I rejected his recommendation of minimum salary and badgered me for weeks before I had to suggest moving to an accountant who accepted my decisions.

I hope you did. I wouldn't want to be associated with an accountancy practise that had clients who accepted their accountant doing stuff like that. Guilt by association.

Even better, use FreeAgent and do DIY using an accountant for one offs if required.

[jamesbrown]

I think Gorilla, and probably other firms, are being a tad complacent.

I've seen this before with the schemes. Firms saying we're not like "them", only to later end up getting clobbered.

If CK/Boox lose, all bets are off as to who HMRC will go after next.

Completely agree. It’s a big “if”, but you’re absolutely right that the scope will be dramatically broadened if they lose. Honestly, in that scenario, I wouldn’t want to be with any mainstream contractor accountancy.

[jamesbrown]

In other words, for anyone reading this thread and wondering, don’t say you weren’t warned.

[coxy]

I think most of us are in that boat. Boox certainly never managed mine or made decisions, yet by using their portal, we are in this position. To me their portal was just a modern way of managing it. I used the portal to manage things, not Boox. yet, because that portal came with a monthly fee, we find outselves here. I don't think we are out of the woods though.

I have emailed the esimscteam my appeal in April and a follow up since, but neither email was acknowledged. Might really need to phone them i think.

Was the BOOX portal bespoke, their own application as such. Or was it a FreeAgent portal?

[Fred Bloggs]

Was the BOOX portal bespoke, their own application as such. Or was it a FreeAgent portal?

Bespoke portal. I don't know that any challenge has been made to a FreeAgent based accountant. I would be astonished if that were to happen.

[antuk]

Bespoke portal. I don't know that any challenge has been made to a FreeAgent based accountant. I would be astonished if that were to happen.

I don't get why a custom built portal is any worse than an off the shelf portal. They both did the same thing