Reply to: Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[GregRickshaw]

Yes, this is what I meant. As I said, I seem to recall a year or so back that they weren't allowing people to do this (possibly because they hadn't figured out how to calculate exactly how much people owed).

Depending on individual circumstances, I imagine this calculation could be quite convoluted.

If you want to pay the uncontested bill they will let you. So convoluted or not the figure they gave you is the one they will accept.

A lot of us have done just 'this' but just as a POA which is really us saying okay there's the money (the bill) so now Foxtrot Oscar....

The difference between POA and as you are proposing paying the bill is... whatever the outcome (jeez I crack myself up) ha ha ha....
When HMRC win you won't have to face the extra interest charge which will be 8 years of interest by the time this is done and not at the BoE rates.

So if you have the money to 'settle' to effectively pay the bill I would advise don't do that but instead... POA.... as there is one in a million chance HMRC lose ("so you're saying there is a chance?")

[woody1]

If you mean settle in full pay what HMRC have billed which yes would 'settle' and mean your case is closed, HMRC are very open to these. This would be your bill and any interest accumulated.

Yes, this is what I meant. As I said, I seem to recall a year or so back that they weren't allowing people to do this (possibly because they hadn't figured out how to calculate exactly how much people owed).

Depending on individual circumstances, I imagine this calculation could be quite convoluted.

[GregRickshaw]

Has HMRC let anyone settle yet? I seem to recall a while back that they weren't allowing settlements, only payments on account.

If you mean settle in full pay what HMRC have billed which yes would 'settle' and mean your case is closed, HMRC are very open to these. This would be your bill and any interest accumulated. Possibly if you call them and say you want to pay the amount owed in full they might consider removing the interest, it's been done before but it's a huge MIGHT.

However if you are referring to previous horse trading style settlements then no.

HMRC believe every £ owed has to be paid. These cases are very different to the loan charges/EBT schemes which we did see settlements mainly because many of those cases never really got fully overturned or ambiguous at the very least and HRMC played a little fast and loose with the rules at times.

FYI I paid on account, got two years thrown out fairly 'quickly' in Glacial HMRC terms, not seen a single penny back.

I am sure there will be accommodating TTP arrangements when this is all over. It seems cases are going to court early 2026 so expect final rulings around 2030?

[woody1]

Has HMRC let anyone settle yet? I seem to recall a while back that they weren't allowing settlements, only payments on account.

[GregRickshaw]

Received a letter about the current status of things: instead of 5, there will be 1 single lead case

For those who appealed and got the charges stood over, and are still happy to continue with this position, I think there is nothing to do. To me, it looked like it was just a status-update letter. But please do post if any comments/suggestions.

Four from CK one from Boox (maybe) but there are definitely four from CK.

It really doesn't matter anymore anyway, this case is rock solid win for HMRC (it always has been). HMRC threw out all the incorrects, didn't bother chasing those who didn't put their heads above the parapets, not even for debt transfer.

HMRC have never cared about this as a monetary raid, as long as they get their legislation.

They sharpened their knives and laser honed in on the target. This had been clinical from day one.

[eek]

A single test case has my spider senses tingling and not in a good way.

[ritwolf]

Received a letter about the current status of things: instead of 5, there will be 1 single lead case

For those who appealed and got the charges stood over, and are still happy to continue with this position, I think there is nothing to do. To me, it looked like it was just a status-update letter. But please do post if any comments/suggestions.

[GregRickshaw]

Im wondering whether to shut the company down. If any refunds materialise from HMRC, will have to re-open the company and you can only do that within six years of closing. It's 2025 and the test cases have not gone to trial yet. If the court cases drag on longer than six years any refunds to the closed company will go to the Crown. No idea what to do.

Again unfortunately you won't be able to shut your company down (if you mean to strike it off) HMRC won't allow it.

[plowpoelw]

Unfortunately I contacted them a couple of times to try and argue my point with a ton of evidence showing how I was independent of control, had my company set up before contracting Boox and generally showing the PSC/Accountant relationship with me getting accountancy (not tax) advice and telling them how much I wanted to pay myself which varied month to month...usually against the guidance of Boox.. They have been silent for a long time...Guess I'll file my last Corp tax for up to Apr 24 and see if they will lift the block to shut the company.

Im wondering whether to shut the company down. If any refunds materialise from HMRC, will have to re-open the company and you can only do that within six years of closing. It's 2025 and the test cases have not gone to trial yet. If the court cases drag on longer than six years any refunds to the closed company will go to the Crown. No idea what to do.

[Fuzzynavel]

CK clients too, I didn't see the news on the article you linked, but we were advised of this about a month ago. I don't truly think many of us were surprised (annoyed yes) surprised no. I'm sure there are multiple 100s of contractors who never took any action at all from the very first letter.

Unfortunately I contacted them a couple of times to try and argue my point with a ton of evidence showing how I was independent of control, had my company set up before contracting Boox and generally showing the PSC/Accountant relationship with me getting accountancy (not tax) advice and telling them how much I wanted to pay myself which varied month to month...usually against the guidance of Boox.. They have been silent for a long time...Guess I'll file my last Corp tax for up to Apr 24 and see if they will lift the block to shut the company.

[GregRickshaw]

It's good news - it means their target number goes down and so they devote less resources to it.

As I have said for a long time, they are merely honing in on the targets.

They don't care about the collateral which got in their way.

They have always been about trapping just a few in an inescapable trap, to get their legislation, that's all this has ever been about.

Once they have that it will send the remaining PSCs into the arms of umbrellas and a PAYE structure.

[Guy Incognito]

It's good news - it means their target number goes down and so they devote less resources to it.

[GregRickshaw]

Did anyone spot this last week?

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/...cape-crackdown

CK clients too, I didn't see the news on the article you linked, but we were advised of this about a month ago. I don't truly think many of us were surprised (annoyed yes) surprised no. I'm sure there are multiple 100s of contractors who never took any action at all from the very first letter.

[ladymuck]

Did anyone spot this last week?

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/...cape-crackdown

HMRC has been accused of “stunning incompetence” by a leading employment status expert after 246 former clients of Boox who failed to appeal PAYE determinations under the managed services companies (MSC) legislation may get off, whereas the 915 that did file an appeal may end up having to pay.

[nekro]

Glad I didn't make POA.