Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

So it seems like the best way forward is DIY on the back of a fag packet accounting.

Just make sure you pay the VAT bill because those guys don't muck about.

[jamesbrown]

In the case of Boox, there was not two levels of service. There was a ‘small business’ cost for 1-2 people, then a larger business cost for more than that. No premium service or anything though. Same as Xero if we’re talking about the platform, and same as most accountants of we’re talking about the cost structure for the accounting. It just corellates to the amount of work the accountant has to do and makes the payment options easier for the customer!

Perhaps. It's hard to know as someone who hasn't engaged with Boox. The problem with Boox may just be the degree of hand-holding that was marketed to all customers (I linked a YouTube video earlier in the thread and it was absolutely ridiculous, asking for trouble). That said, the facts should come out at tribunal and marketing isn't necessarily reality. As I recall, CK were offering different levels of service with the most expensive marketed as "completely hands free", so the stronger/weaker points may well be different between the two.

[jamesbrown]

So it seems like the best way forward is DIY on the back of a fag packet accounting.

Just make sure you pay the VAT bill because those guys don't muck about.

Yeah and, as you allude to, that may not be the best idea for different reasons, i.e., you'd better have a reasonable level of competence/knowledge.

[mogga71]

Just to say that I had thought my company was clsoed down back in May 2020 but unbenknownst to me HMRC had blocked it on companies house and I wasn't made aware the company had remained open/dormant until the beginning of this year when Churchill first sent out communications about the investigation. Does this sound right to people on this forum? Surely they cannot do that? I've not operated through a limited company for years now and had paid for my company to be closed and liquidated when I finished doing so.

Also, as my first post here, I just want to say I am just in utter disbeleif about this whole thing - the entire premise does not make sense to me, I do not understand how an accountant (because they had a portal) can be deemed an employer and even if you somehow accept that logical jump, how it is the responsbility of the unknowing client to pay back taxes? I didn't try to dodge even one penny of tax and I specifically chose an accountant with a really clear service and expertise and not some dodgy guy down the road because I wanted to make 100% sure I did everything by the book.

I can only pray that whomever decides this tribunal sees the lunacy in all this because I cannot afford to pay anything - nor can i contribute £11k to Churchill which to my mind is equally insane.

If anyone has any advice or links to other resources I'd greatly appreciate it as I have just felt utterly powerless and clueless in all this and thus far have tried not to think about it too much because I can't bear it...

This is certainly a new one on me. So, if I am reading this correctly you thought that your Company had been dissolved but it actually had not? When did HMRC block its closure ... early on in the closure process or late on? May I ask how you were getting the remaining funds out of the Company ... MVL or simple final dividend etc...did that happen? Are you paying Boox to keep it dormant?

[LTDBizDirector]

Has anyone had any luck of hearing from Boox in the last few weeks? Phones have auto message to email, email not being answered, got a horrible shock today to find none of their internet/social media presence pages are working. Leaving me in an awful place mentally and in utter disbelief with the whole situation with the HMRC.

Last I heard from Boox was when they submitted their last correspondence letter to HMRC on 9 November 22.

Since then I have received a letter directly from HMRC which has been a massive shock, wanting huge payment (business cannot pay this and I cannot afford this, my business was massively impacted by covid and recovery has been incredibly slow). They provide no details to the time period, or how they came to these imaginative figures and I can't correspond to any figures of an accounting period or my entire accounting period or payroll. Does anyone have any idea?? Even on the initial notification from Boox, the figures were not correct for the period 17/18 for business income/payroll. there is no detail how the HMRC came to the conclusions or determinations. Just Boox falls under x,y,z under such and such and as such you owe us money now (pulls figure from thin air).

I am now having to fight this on my own, as Boox appear to have disappeared off the face of the earth, no way to contact them to get a response to what they are doing. Any advice or can anyone direct me to any useful information I can review and analyse so that can formulate a factual and clear response to the HMRC for appeal, and what evidence would be good to include, to make is extremely clear, that only accountancy services and accountancy advice were provided to my business by Boox, they got paid for nothing else, no access or control of any company bank accounts, money or any control or input into the running of my business.

I have seen the mention of a portal in a few posts - is this for Churchhill Knight only? I haven't seen any mention of this from the HMRC regarding Boox.

Any help or pointers in the direction of helpful information is greatly appreciated.

[Lotok]

Has anyone had any luck of hearing from Boox in the last few weeks? Phones have auto message to email, email not being answered, got a horrible shock today to find none of their internet/social media presence pages are working. Leaving me in an awful place mentally and in utter disbelief with the whole situation with the HMRC.

Last I heard from Boox was when they submitted their last correspondence letter to HMRC on 9 November 22.

Since then I have received a letter directly from HMRC which has been a massive shock, wanting huge payment (business cannot pay this and I cannot afford this, my business was massively impacted by covid and recovery has been incredibly slow). They provide no details to the time period, or how they came to these imaginative figures and I can't correspond to any figures of an accounting period or my entire accounting period or payroll. Does anyone have any idea?? Even on the initial notification from Boox, the figures were not correct for the period 17/18 for business income/payroll. there is no detail how the HMRC came to the conclusions or determinations. Just Boox falls under x,y,z under such and such and as such you owe us money now (pulls figure from thin air).

I am now having to fight this on my own, as Boox appear to have disappeared off the face of the earth, no way to contact them to get a response to what they are doing. Any advice or can anyone direct me to any useful information I can review and analyse so that can formulate a factual and clear response to the HMRC for appeal, and what evidence would be good to include, to make is extremely clear, that only accountancy services and accountancy advice were provided to my business by Boox, they got paid for nothing else, no access or control of any company bank accounts, money or any control or input into the running of my business.

I have seen the mention of a portal in a few posts - is this for Churchhill Knight only? I haven't seen any mention of this from the HMRC regarding Boox.

Any help or pointers in the direction of helpful information is greatly appreciated.

I have said a few times on this thread I think boox has gone under. I have the same problems with them not answering and as you said, their website no longer even works. A couple pages back I posted a comment about speaking to companies house, my DS01 has not been filed even though I asked them (and paid them) to. So I have had to make a change of address direct with companies house as a first step as my mail went to the accountants office rather than using my home address.

I haven't seen the NI letter yet, but no doubt its in Boox's office and has not been sent on.

Do not rely on them for anything, they have proven to be absolutely terrible and untrustworthy. I would have expected people to receive a letter/email saying they are no longer engaged as accountant, but instead I think they've just closed up shop. At least it appears that way.

About the HMRC claims, I am in the same boat, other than use their portal to manage my RTIs etc, I see no way I am an MSC. But HMRC are trying to skew an unrelated legislation to take more money from contractors it appears. I have had no luck even getting replies from HMRC, even my appeals went unanswered.

What you can do is look back in this thread about joining the David Kirk group. You need conditional claims on your dividend tax and corporation tax or you could end up paying double tax those years if HMRC win in court.

[DealorNoDeal]

Where are Boox' offices located? If someone lives or works nearby, it might be worth dropping by to see if they have shut up shop.

[AlanG]

Boox have told me they're thinking of putting out a conditional claim letter for their clients to use next month, once the appeals are out the way.

It looks like we'll all miss the deadline for the corporation tax conditional claim in any case, as according to the David Kirk advisor it was end of April, although I'm not clear what exactly was driving the deadline. It's annoying, as that's one reason I wanted to sign up with the David Kirk group (which otherwise is very vague on what you get for your money), but they're prioritising appeals so aren't getting round to processing non-appeal people until next week.

I've not had confirmation of receipt of appeal back from HMRC yet. I've chased but Boox are saying it's not an issue - because the appeal has been emailed in time without triggering a message undeliverable email, it should be accepted.

A quick Google search shows that Boox are based in Portsmouth and also that there is an active proposal for them to be struck off on the companies House website, if I were you I wouldn't rely on them and going forward I'd use a tax specialist such as David Kirk for your communications with HMRC.

[Lotok]

Where are Boox' offices located? If someone lives or works nearby, it might be worth dropping by to see if they have shut up shop.

Portsmouth,
The Port House, Marina Keep, Portsmouth PO6 4TH

I am in Scotland so bit of a trek, hopefully someone is closer!

[ExLuninKiwi]

I received an email from Boox today with my scanned 'courtesy' email from HMRC notifying me of the extra year+NI determinations that will be sent soon. It came with a strongly worded email that they are rebutting HMRC's claims of MSC determination, along with privacy and data breaches HMRC have made.