State of the Market

[Fraidycat]

It's baffling that nobody is worried about this - we've got mortgages, car loans, credit cards to pay, etc. and I just don't really know how hundreds of thousands of people (again, how many of us are out there?) who used to earn in excess of £100k per year can survive on savings or £40k salaries. My mortgage only eats 1/3rd of our income, but I've been out of a job for 7 months now and I'm running out of savings. Even if I get a £40k permie job, it won't cover the bills - it will only add to the suffering.

People cope by having two salaries.

Even a couple on minimum wage can take home around £4K with overtime.

A single person, on 40K ie. £2500 a month and bills to pay, well yeah, that is poverty. But still better having an income of £0, which is complete destitution.

[eek]

Yep, this feels like end-game stuff to me.

Really?

We've been here before in 2001, 2008 and 2020...

[Fraidycat]

Really?

We've been here before in 2001, 2008 and 2020...

Those were relatively quick downturns. And each time we were saved by the central banks cutting interest rate cuts, and in 2008 and 2020 printing money with QE.

This one might be more like the IT downturn on the early 90s.

1991 to 1994.

Which was also caused by high inflation and high interest rates.

[SueEllen]

Late to the party, but I've got a few questions / observations.

1) Does anyone know how many of us are out there? It's baffling that nobody is worried about this - we've got mortgages, car loans, credit cards to pay, etc. and I just don't really know how hundreds of thousands of people (again, how many of us are out there?) who used to earn in excess of £100k per year can survive on savings or £40k salaries. My mortgage only eats 1/3rd of our income, but I've been out of a job for 7 months now and I'm running out of savings. Even if I get a £40k permie job, it won't cover the bills - it will only add to the suffering. Is the HM Government going to print more money to rescue us when things go bad? Or will they leave us for dead? How can nobody see this as a massive problem?

Why is your mortgage so big?

Interest rates were artificially low from 2008 to 2021 so unless you have a long term fix e.g. 10-15 years that was renewed around 2021 you are going to be screwed shortly.

2) If things don't get better quickly, the next two professions that will cease to exist will be recruiters and HR staff. These clowns used to make so much money on us - if we don't have jobs, they won't have jobs! Add them to the picture, and things look pretty bleak for the entire economy.

Recruiters are sales people. They will move on.

Some HR are as well though their main job is keeping the senior company employees out of tulip with more junior ones. So they are ok.

3) Remote working - I don't really know how companies can expect people to go back to the office - many people have rebuilt their lives after COVID and going back to the office is not an option. Even if I wanted to, my girlfriend wouldn't let me, as it would mean that she has to quit her job and be a SAHM again, which she won't agree to.

That's fine if she is the main earner or will be in a few years.

Otherwise if she wishes to have the lifestyle she wants she needs to realise you need to commute to work in an office and you both need to sort out appropriate paid for childcare.

4) What's the deal with the ridiculous "AWS developer" job trend (I'm in the IT)? WHO or WHAT is that AWS developer guy / gal? Where is this ridiculous trend coming from - the companies or the recruiters?

Where have you been for the last decade? Plenty of companies and organisations expect you to know something about cloud computing and services.

5) GOD HELP US ALL

Huh??!

[Fraidycat]

Yep, this feels like end-game stuff to me.

The new AI stuff does feel like that. By 2030 the AI will be 100x more powerful than it is today.

[eek]

The new AI stuff does feel like that. By 2030 the AI will be 100x more powerful than it is today.

Yet AI really hasn't even kicked off yet.

Although I think I would trust an AI to give me workable code far more than I would trust it to tell me when x occurred.

[dsc]

Late to the party, but I've got a few questions / observations.

1) Does anyone know how many of us are out there? It's baffling that nobody is worried about this - we've got mortgages, car loans, credit cards to pay, etc. and I just don't really know how hundreds of thousands of people (again, how many of us are out there?) who used to earn in excess of £100k per year can survive on savings or £40k salaries. My mortgage only eats 1/3rd of our income, but I've been out of a job for 7 months now and I'm running out of savings. Even if I get a £40k permie job, it won't cover the bills - it will only add to the suffering. Is the HM Government going to print more money to rescue us when things go bad? Or will they leave us for dead? How can nobody see this as a massive problem?[...]

At first I thought this was a sarcastic comment, but I'm starting to thing you were being serious. If so, ffs, who cares about ex-contractors who used to make £1000+ a day? there's a million people living off of food banks and you are wondering if the gov would help you out of all people cause you have a mortgage and need to pay off credit cards?

[TheDude]

Just been approached about an Ada role on £375 a day inside IR35.

I removed any mention of Ada from my CV about ten years ago...

Still - it was nice to talk to someone.

[Sub]

Anyone has any guesses why the decision to ditch London altogether?

I'm in a different industry to IT, but I've heard absolutely nothing for the last 2-3 months, before that it wasn't so bad, mostly perm jobs on salaries from 2010, but still something, now there's nothing...

I am waiting for the property market to cool off till end of the year and planning move to east Midlands - same weather, better houses for less money. To be fair it was not necessary to be in London for at least 5-6 years before pandemic for many specialties in IT to be busy on a good rate.

So actually I was thinking about moving out of London before pandemic, but then suddenly there was a lot of youngsters jumping into 99% LTV mortgages over last couple of years pushing property prices higher. Now things are settling, rates are up to some sane level and as soon as proud but stupid recent property buyers are delinquent and back with their parents, there seem to be a good window to get property for reasonable price.

[Bluenose]

Really?

We've been here before in 2001, 2008 and 2020...

We not been in this place before. Yes, the contracting market has seen those bear markets before with the old world contracting setup but this is a different ball-game with a hostile Government that has weaponised HMRC and demonised the sector.

In 2023 it is simply an easier sell to get a Deliotte Digital drone in and not have to deal with the hassle of a contractor.