Reply to: Flippity-Flop: Weighing up a Return to Contracting

[ladymuck]

Isn't that all of us? Did you not tick the mandatory box asking 'Are you an upper-middle class tosser who probably doesn't have to work but is just playing at it' box when signing up to the forum?

I'll have to ask my butler. I don't do manual labour.

[northernladuk]

I REALLY hate the title of this thread, conjuring up the image of some upper-middle class tosser who probably doesn't have to work but is just playing at it.

Isn't that all of us? Did you not tick the mandatory box asking 'Are you an upper-middle class tosser who probably doesn't have to work but is just playing at it' box when signing up to the forum?

[WTFH]

I REALLY hate the title of this thread, conjuring up the image of some upper-middle class tosser who probably doesn't have to work but is just playing at it.

And have you met fiisch to confirm that it is not accurate?

[oliverson]

I REALLY hate the title of this thread, conjuring up the image of some upper-middle class tosser who probably doesn't have to work but is just playing at it.

[sreed]

Some of the responses inspired me to have the difficult conversation and push back on the "development opportunity" of a promotion with none of the payrise. Cue a 10% increase, which takes me to just below the ton (which I want to stay under due to young kids/tax free childcare/60% stealth tax).

Well done on having the difficult conversation and getting a pay hike out of it! And imho, if you're being paid 100k in a job that you're reasonably happy in, and the contractor rates you're looking at are around 600-700/day, you've taken the right decision.

With respect to the part in bold, just want to stress that there are plenty of ways to avoid the tax and benefits pitfalls that may come with exceeding 100k in income - additional contributions to your SIPP being the most straightforward. The 100k cut-off threshold for TFC, free childcare hours, personal savings allowance, etc. are all based on the Adjusted Net Income (crudely salary less gross pension contributions) so with a 60k pension annual allowance, you'd have to earn a lot more than 100k PAYE to genuinely run out of options.

[Bluenose]

Thanks again for pointers - if nothing else, this thread helped me get a payrise for a role I'd otherwise have done at same salary, albeit begrudgingly. Lesson learned to be more direct in future...

Where is our commission?

I think its the right move tbh.

[fiisch]

Looks like I'll be staying in the safe seat... For now.

Some of the responses inspired me to have the difficult conversation and push back on the "development opportunity" of a promotion with none of the payrise. Cue a 10% increase, which takes me to just below the ton (which I want to stay under due to young kids/tax free childcare/60% stealth tax).

Meanwhile, I had interview #1 (former client, £600 p/d outside IR35) and the programme sounded in disarray - interview was with a contractor and a consultant for a company who's agreement with the client was ending in 2 weeks, and was told project was currently on hold and subject to replanning. This made my spidey senses tingle, as there's always a possibility programme gets shelved before I even set foot in the building, and why is a third party who is coming to the end of their involvement asked to be involved in hiring process..?!

Interview #2 invitation (£750 p/d, inside IR35), multi-year programme and for a company I was quite excited to work with. However, one of the interviewers is a former hiring manager for a disastrous fixed term contract I had during Covid (I literally got forgotten about and paid for sitting around doing nothing, which is far more depressing than it sounds), which has completely put me off.

I have another couple of interview invitations pending on slightly higher day rates but less established companies in my industry, but with the uprated job title and 10% payrise I'm inclined to agree with the advice I was given at the start of this thread and stay in a safe permie seat.

Thanks again for pointers - if nothing else, this thread helped me get a payrise for a role I'd otherwise have done at same salary, albeit begrudgingly. Lesson learned to be more direct in future...

[dsc]

Sorry yes should've said 10+ approaches, basically I'd say you need to be popping up in peoples searches and for them to contact you regularly to be sure that work is there, available, whenever you like. That, or have a raft of older clients needing work, who you cooperate with on a regular basis.

[SussexSeagull]

I always say that if you get gig offers coming in at rate of say 10+ per month and they are genuine offers not some silly made up tulipe, then going contracting might be worth it. If you get an offer of a contract once every 6 months, and outside of this you get absolutely nothing, then your skillset is simply not needed enough to easily walk into a new contract when your new one is done. And never ever assume that contracting income means 220*day rate per year and then go to compare that to a safe permanent position (unless you have super hot skills as I mentioned before).

I think that is somewhat over the top. Absolutely agree that you should do your research to see if your skills are in demand but no one gets ten offers a month. You might very well get ten approaches but that is different as the path between approach and sitting at your (possibly virtual) desk is a long one.

Bit about not assuming you will work all the time is fair comment though.

[dsc]

I always say that if you get gig offers coming in at rate of say 10+ per month and they are genuine offers not some silly made up tulipe, then going contracting might be worth it. If you get an offer of a contract once every 6 months, and outside of this you get absolutely nothing, then your skillset is simply not needed enough to easily walk into a new contract when your new one is done. And never ever assume that contracting income means 220*day rate per year and then go to compare that to a safe permanent position (unless you have super hot skills as I mentioned before).

[PerfectStorm]

I've also been promoted this morning, but no payrise attaching to this, which is an added boot in the teeth

I'd be inclined to ask what such is an arrangement is meant to promote - your stress levels?

[rocktronAMP]

I know as a third party, I'd read this thread and scream at the OP to stay in his cushty permie job, but truth be told I'm bored and frustrated. My current role is in a slightly different area of my industry that I find less interesting, and I'm bored, and I'm ****ed off. I've also been promoted this morning, but no payrise attaching to this, which is an added boot in the teeth. So screw this, I suspect I'll be a contractor again in the not-so-distant future...

Two interviews lined up this week - one Inside, one Outside, both exciting projects. I daren't ask how I go about comparing Inside vs Outside rates......

You and I will always have The Law of Two Feet. I'd be off with a new job title promotion of £0.00; that s**te and not suitainable for your personal performance and your mental health.

[Paralytic]

I know as a third party, I'd read this thread and scream at the OP to stay in his cushty permie job, but truth be told I'm bored and frustrated. My current role is in a slightly different area of my industry that I find less interesting, and I'm bored, and I'm ****ed off. I've also been promoted this morning, but no payrise attaching to this, which is an added boot in the teeth. So screw this, I suspect I'll be a contractor again in the not-so-distant future...

Promoted but no pay rise? I'm sorry, but that's not a promotion - that's a p!ss take. I assume more responsibility? Did you try to decline the promotion?

Time to quiet quit i think...

[fiisch]

I know as a third party, I'd read this thread and scream at the OP to stay in his cushty permie job, but truth be told I'm bored and frustrated. My current role is in a slightly different area of my industry that I find less interesting, and I'm bored, and I'm ****ed off. I've also been promoted this morning, but no payrise attaching to this, which is an added boot in the teeth. So screw this, I suspect I'll be a contractor again in the not-so-distant future...

Two interviews lined up this week - one Inside, one Outside, both exciting projects. I daren't ask how I go about comparing Inside vs Outside rates......

[TheDogsNads]

Thank you for inputs - I appreciate the differences (I enjoyed the good, bad and ugly in my relatively short (5 yrs) spell as a contractor) - in, out and FTC.

This post was more about settling an argument with my wife - I recall from the beforetimes of IR35 there was a loose formula (day rate multiplied by X) which gave a rough approximation of what was an equivalent take home, taking into account void periods, holiday etc., albeit a very rough guide.

My original intention had been to use this formula to beat my wife over the head and show that really my current pay means I'd be silly to revert to contracting.

However, as is often the case, I've started to come around to her way of thinking. Back of a fag packet maths:

- £90k salary, rough take home £4.8k + £1.1k pension = £5.9k net.
- An inside purportedly long-term contract - £750/day - £8.1k, assuming 8 weeks off, - £800 month commuting expenses = £7.3k net.

Playing Devil's Advocate, am I not significantly better off financially with the inside gig, and have added flexibility around how much I wish to take home/pay into pension, and how much holiday I wish to take.

Im struck by are you a man or a mouse? Your wife wants you to go back contracting to earn more money so she has more to spend? Or she wants you living away from home in the arse end of nowhere while she has her bit on the side round?

Either you want to go contracting or you dont. All this 'wife wants' stuff is just a smokescreen.

Jib your permie job off and see how much better off you are in 12 months time even with an IR35 inside job then compare!