Reply to: State of the Market

[rocktronAMP]

No remote contracts in Europe? or hard to do because of nationality? it seems like it's a set of skills that would land a job fairly quickly (I would certainly like them on my CV) in the past, so the market must really be focked.

You mentioned age, not sure how old you are, but that can certainly be a factor, especially in software dev positions as I wouldn't be surprised if they want all the fresh kids with the latest languages only just created a few weeks ago. Very often its about cultural'/ company fit these days and if the chap interviewing you is young enough to be your son / daughter, then there might be a certain amount of bias...

I'm sure you've done this already, but speaking to previous clients normally generates some work. Heavy pushing on LI can also help, connect loads and send PMs, yes most get ignored, but some do generate at least replies / calls etc.

100% to all of the above. IF YOU DON'T ASK, then I guarantee you won't ever get. I know that everyday without feels like a blinking ground hog day....

From my experience Java is the doorway into thousands of frameworks, mostly open source, among the popular ones are:

• Spring Framework
• Spring Boot
• Hibernate
• Mockito
• JUnit
• Cucumber JVM
• All of Jakarta EE technologies (used to be called Java EE (and before that it was J2EE))
• Apache Software Foundation - Tomcat web server, Camel, Commons, Log4J, POI, Spark, ZooKeeper
• Pathway into Android - mobile phone programming (but see the next bullet with Kotlin)
• Pathway into alternative JVM programming languages: Kotlin, Scala, Groovy and Clojure

If you know SQL, then these relational databases are still loved: PostgreSQL, MySQL and then you can add NoSQL to your skillset. Even people are crying out of Oracle 10g with PL/SQL, I bet Santander and Lloyds Banking Group have still not upgraded these backsides with these servers(!).

If you know Node/JS then there is whole bunch of stuff, people are struggling to do with AWS Lambda functions in order to create Serverless compute.
Then if you take your Node and swing it the other way towards web technologies, then getting into Angular or even better React could get you a modern Full Stack role or nearly enough to a rewarding Full Stack front-ender. Of course, you'ill need to add HTML5 / CSS3 and rendition /rendering knowledge to your Node skills.

For me, jump into the AI craziness. If you can write a Java program that connects to ChatGPT then you might stumble into something. I don't know. Who knows?

I am reminded of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_G..._Diddley_album)
Schumistar get off your BUM and hunt'em down

[SussexSeagull]

Hate the fockers bringing them here then, wasn't that the whole Brexit idea? get rid of fairly skilled EU migration and replace it with migration from countries where EU rules don't apply and make a buck or two? Whoever voted for that, should hate themselves, not the chaps coming over to work as they were brought in. Of course it's easier to dump it on the people brought in and hating them for "stealing our jobs".

Blaming big business for trying to increase profit margins is like trying to blame a shark for biting you. It's what it does.

Government needs to change the rules. To be fair they are looking into the amount off Visa issued in IT/Tech but I suspect the damage is done.

[dsc]

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

No remote contracts in Europe? or hard to do because of nationality? it seems like it's a set of skills that would land a job fairly quickly (I would certainly like them on my CV) in the past, so the market must really be focked.

You mentioned age, not sure how old you are, but that can certainly be a factor, especially in software dev positions as I wouldn't be surprised if they want all the fresh kids with the latest languages only just created a few weeks ago. Very often its about cultural'/ company fit these days and if the chap interviewing you is young enough to be your son / daughter, then there might be a certain amount of bias...

I'm sure you've done this already, but speaking to previous clients normally generates some work. Heavy pushing on LI can also help, connect loads and send PMs, yes most get ignored, but some do generate at least replies / calls etc.

[dsc]

Not better value. My experience is that cheap labour costs more in the long term. As you have to redo the work in most cases.

Hate the fockers bringing them here then, wasn't that the whole Brexit idea? get rid of fairly skilled EU migration and replace it with migration from countries where EU rules don't apply and make a buck or two? Whoever voted for that, should hate themselves, not the chaps coming over to work as they were brought in. Of course it's easier to dump it on the people brought in and hating them for "stealing our jobs".

[Sub]

Not better value. My experience is that cheap labor costs more in the long term. As you have to redo the work in most cases.

Of course, but why this should be a concern for an executives or shareholders of the company, if they can increase their short and medium-term bonuses / dividends by drastically reducing costs of labor for this FY?

They take their 6/7 figure salaries, plus bonuses, say "sorry, it seem to be time for some one else to step in" and depart leaving pile of s*te behind. And it will be their end-client's (and this is often public sector entity) problem to sort - usually by spending more money with another vendor.

Answering to your previous question, what immigration, Thames Water and workers rights has to do with each other - all those issues have same source. And this is ukplc conduct, placing short-term, small group benefits above welfare of their workers as well general public interests, health and safety. And to do that, they use every available method including lobbying necessary policies through weak government.

Despite same end-result, the problem we have is not: "Immigrants (legal by the way, guys coming on rafts unlikely to take anyone's job) taking UK programmers jobs", it is "companies increasing their profits by giving UK programmer jobs to immigrants they bring in". While there is little difference in outcome for UK programmers, correct statement of the problem is critical to finding a solution.

[GJABS]

It's always worth trying. I was always C# and then got a contract, oddly, wanting me to do Java. I had to learn, very quickly on the job. That was about 20yrs ago though.

Its also very different today than how it was when I first started circa Y2K. It does seem that, although useful, having an understanding of how computers work in detail is not required. I.e. Knowing how memory is allocated or how to improve performance on a database.

I am also very sure that the freshies, like Accenture graduates, are not particuly interested in computer science. They use it as an entry point for a career in order to become a (project/programme/tech) manager of some sort has it has more status associated.

It's only when you get to my age do you work out that being a developer within an aging community is probably not cool.

Thanks for that. I do have C# .NET mentioned in the body of my CV, and as a result of that I got a call from an agent re a C# gig a few weeks ago, to which she said she would forward the CV to the client.
But a week later the client got back to her saying "we also have a SQL DBA role that might be a closer fit to GJABS's CV - would he prefer to apply to that perhaps". I said no to that, as I wanted the C# job. But I heard nothing further.

As an aside, given how quiet the market is, I'm using my free time to compile a wiki on an internet-facing Raspberry PI, comprising a detailed history of my career, describing the various projects I've worked on over the years. And link to it from my main CV. Who knows it might improve my job prospects, though I am not getting my hopes up!

I hope you find work too in the not too distant future - and I still think being a developer is cool - at any age

[SchumiStars]

Interesting. My main skill is SQL, but I've developed a hobby aerial photos website in javascript, compiled with node.js. and a few years ago wrote a hobby trading website in C#. I wonder whether it is worth trying to build on the second two skills and try and use them professionally? Maybe I would not be able to find work though, if your experience is typical?

It's always worth trying. I was always C# and then got a contract, oddly, wanting me to do Java. I had to learn, very quickly on the job. That was about 20yrs ago though.

Its also very different today than how it was when I first started circa Y2K. It does seem that, although useful, having an understanding of how computers work in detail is not required. I.e. Knowing how memory is allocated or how to improve performance on a database.

I am also very sure that the freshies, like Accenture graduates, are not particuly interested in computer science. They use it as an entry point for a career in order to become a (project/programme/tech) manager of some sort has it has more status associated.

It's only when you get to my age do you work out that being a developer within an aging community is probably not cool.

[GJABS]

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

Interesting. My main skill is SQL, but I've developed a hobby aerial photos website in javascript, compiled with node.js. and a few years ago wrote a hobby trading website in C#. I wonder whether it is worth trying to build on the second two skills and try and use them professionally? Maybe I would not be able to find work though, if your experience is typical?

[Fraidycat]

I don't keep up with the trends in development platforms but if someone experienced in those technologies can't find work then most of us are in trouble.

Even if you have Java or C# they will look for a closer match and experience in more specific sub skills. Just to filter through the 100s of CVs they get. Along with the other common filters like working the same sector recently.

[SussexSeagull]

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

I don't keep up with the trends in development platforms but if someone experienced in those technologies can't find work then most of us are in trouble.

[BigDataPro]

They seem to be doing ok on that front. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr

+1. India is doing well in their own defence manufacturing under the "Make in India" programme and doing very well in its exporting as well.

[SchumiStars]

What field of work are you in?

Software dev. Java, C#, Node, SQL

[Elliegirl]

Started to think about catching a train. Not good.

What field of work are you in?

[squarepeg]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

No. The end client (the employer) pays only slightly lower rate or even the same rate as before. The consultancies take a large cut of the contractor/employee's rate. The quality of work is low. Over the last decade I worked on about half a dozen projects where either imported labour or offshore labour was used and the quality was awful. In one case it tanked a promising startup in the the other it took a whole year to not deliver an important project.

[SussexSeagull]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

Absolutely.