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    Originally posted by WTFH View Post
    I can tell you why, though.
    As part of the MVP, the options were to choose somewhere with good transport links, or somewhere that had good storage facilities nearby.
    Epsom Downs does not have good public transport links, neither are the roads around it particularly great. But the decision became more clear-cut on Tuesday morning.
    Less than 5 miles from the racecourse is probably the best storage facility for the vaccine at Walton Oaks

    (US Label)

    Now, the fun/scary bit is that while most of the time it will be delivered by medical professionals, during the 15 minute monitoring period if you have an adverse reaction it won't be them that look after you, they will be calling on a St John's Ambulance team to do that. This is due to there not being enough PPE for those delivering the vaccine to be able to perform their normal, qualified duties.
    Or just that it makes sense to use all the resources as efficiently as we can in this pandemic.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

    Comment


      Originally posted by vetran View Post
      Not that they are nice open spaces which are out of use and have queuing systems then.

      Oh, you want a serious answer?

      Yes, to the queueing system
      Yes, to the space to park lots of cars.
      NO to the open spaces argument for administration. I realise you've already totally rejected the 15 minute check time. You might not have noticed, but it's December, and the first group to be called for vaccination after the care homes are the over 80s. Now you may be reasonably fit & healthy, but being asked to queue outdoors for a length of time, then following the injection, being asked to wait in a marquee for 15 minutes, is not something that is necessarily a good idea.
      Unfortunately the 15 minute time is going to be essential as we are the first country in the world to license the vaccine and there is not enough evidence as to the risk of anaphylactic shock or other short-term adverse reactions. Perhaps by 6 months in, when there's been a few hundred thousand people vaccinated, we'll know the risks better. Also, by the time other countries have reviewed our data, they will then consider authorisation. As and when the data gets into the hundreds of millions globally then it will be a bit more like polio or TB, the medics will have a clear idea. For now, it's too early to make rash decisions to allay Dr Facebook and Prof Youtube.

      This priority list is as follows:
      1. residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
      2. all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers
      3. all those 75 years of age and over
      4. all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
      5. all those 65 years of age and over
      6. all individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
      7. all those 60 years of age and over
      8. all those 55 years of age and over
      9. all those 50 years of age and over
      {emotionless greeting}

      Three Word Slogan

      Comment


        Originally posted by vetran View Post
        Or just that it makes sense to use all the resources as efficiently as we can in this pandemic.
        No, I was quoting an anaesthetist and the response they received from a senior figure in a health authority when asked that question.

        Efficient use of resource: you have the most qualified person in a room, who knows exactly what to do, they do it.

        Less efficient use of resource: you have the most qualified person in a room, who knows exactly what to do, they have to go track down three charity workers who have to don their PPE, grab their bags, go to where the patient is, and attempt to remember their training to do the job of the guy in the room who knows exactly what to do and has spent years doing it.
        In the meantime, if another patient is in trouble following an injection, then another group of StJA need to go through the same procedure. How many teams of StJA need to be on site on any given day, with all their PPE, etc, for the risk of multiple adverse reactions?
        {emotionless greeting}

        Three Word Slogan

        Comment


          Lunch was a fresh baked small baguette with Waitrose chunky haddock fish fingers, liberally doused in mayo and green sriracha.

          I have only two fish fingers left, I will have to venture to the shop soon...

          Comment


            Originally posted by WTFH View Post
            Oh, you want a serious answer?

            Yes, to the queueing system
            Yes, to the space to park lots of cars.
            NO to the open spaces argument for administration. I realise you've already totally rejected the 15 minute check time. You might not have noticed, but it's December, and the first group to be called for vaccination after the care homes are the over 80s. Now you may be reasonably fit & healthy, but being asked to queue outdoors for a length of time, then following the injection, being asked to wait in a marquee for 15 minutes, is not something that is necessarily a good idea.
            Unfortunately the 15 minute time is going to be essential as we are the first country in the world to license the vaccine and there is not enough evidence as to the risk of anaphylactic shock or other short-term adverse reactions. Perhaps by 6 months in, when there's been a few hundred thousand people vaccinated, we'll know the risks better. Also, by the time other countries have reviewed our data, they will then consider authorisation. As and when the data gets into the hundreds of millions globally then it will be a bit more like polio or TB, the medics will have a clear idea. For now, it's too early to make rash decisions to allay Dr Facebook and Prof Youtube.

            This priority list is as follows:
            1. residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
            2. all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers
            3. all those 75 years of age and over
            4. all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
            5. all those 65 years of age and over
            6. all individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
            7. all those 60 years of age and over
            8. all those 55 years of age and over
            9. all those 50 years of age and over
            no I have not forgotten the 15 minutes, have you forgotten the practicalities of mass vaccination?

            We need to move a large number of people through a system in a safe socially distanced way past a small number of medical staff then have them pause afterwards for 15 minutes watched by people who know the symptoms then to disperse safely. There are few venues designed for this, so we will need to improvise.

            Last time I went to Pinewood we (hundreds of viewers for one of the many programs that needed a studio audience) waited comfortably in the Marquee for > 3 hours the outside temp was near zero and the rain torrential it was warm an dry inside. Many of the attendees were fairly mature and a few in our party fall into the at risk category. as you have to arrive at about 3:30 to get a decent seat i.e. not be working or have an understanding boss.

            We could have multiple marquees and treat each as a bubble for waiting. Then into a tunnel that is sprayed between uses as are the Marquee. Then into an area where the injections are carried out, then to recovery marquee bubbles.

            The race tracks normally have a hospitality suite indoors that could also be used for the frail if they are asked to come but it would make sense to treat them closer to home at their doctors for instance.

            I suspect the racecourses will be for inoculating frontline workers and then the fit but aged public or those less serious diseases for instance my Father mid 80s & Mother in law mid 70s both with medical conditions would deal with these sort of conditions assuming they could be seated while waiting. The key thing is if you can keep people outside or inside and distanced you significantly reduce the risk of cross contamination when gathering lots of people in one place.

            Gathering up those older people in care homes and hospitals is how the government killed so many initially. They should be done in care home/hospital with the doctor & nurse in a near bio suit (they will visit lots of sites) and the local resource doing the monitoring.

            The secret is the Marquees at Pinewood had this new fangled thing called a heater. I believe its based on a thing called fire.
            If you are using lots of Marquees you could generate heat centrally and pipe it to each marquee, retrieve and dose the air you use. You could even create an insulated marquee to be even more environmentally friendly Maybe even a wipe down one?

            Similar in Lapland and winter festivals they were however below zero outside.
            "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

            I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

            Comment


              Very rare for me to get a PM. Hope I didn't offend you missus mucky.

              PS Can't be arsed to figure out how to send a PM meself. Busy preparing for a sister invasion. Fortunately I had a good hoover downstairs a few days ago. That'll do for about a year.
              PPS House spiders invading again. Prefer them to relatives.
              PPPs Have to wander up to shop to get a wine. Will get very wet.
              Last edited by xoggoth; 3 December 2020, 16:01.
              bloggoth

              If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
              John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

              Comment


                evening all. Wet walk completed.

                I've been volunteered for an antibody test as part of the trials I'm involved in. Great, another finger prick.
                {emotionless greeting}

                Three Word Slogan

                Comment


                  Originally posted by xoggoth View Post
                  Very rare for me to get a PM. Hope I didn't offend you missus mucky.

                  PS Can't be arsed to figure out how to send a PM meself. Busy preparing for a sister invasion. Fortunately I had a good hoover downstairs a few days ago. That'll do for about a year.
                  PPS House spiders invading again. Prefer them to relatives.
                  PPPs Have to wander up to shop to get a wine. Will get very wet.
                  I didn't send you a PM, I sent you positive rep and an apology

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                    evening all. Wet walk completed.

                    I've been volunteered for an antibody test as part of the trials I'm involved in. Great, another finger prick.
                    It's good you can talk about it so openly.

                    Comment


                      I've only had two cups of coffee today

                      The second was had about an hour ago, with a pistachio and almond cookie from M&S.

                      Comment

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