Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

Thanks Greg, I only started trading in April 2019 and closed in down in 2021.

If you closed the company then you may be ok anyway. HMRC recently abandoned investigations of companies which had been closed. At the moment it seems they're not interested in re-opening companies.

[Bendy]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on what's happening to see if they start to do that, thanks for the response

[sparkhaze]

Makes sense. I'm not sure people fully appreciate this exclusion from the MSC legislation (Chapter 9). If you weren't extracting more than 50% of the company income, it cannot apply (61B (1) (b)). Of course, IR35 still applies (Chapter 10/11), but that is a separate question.

Do you know if this calculation is done per tax year in question? Or across all 3 years? I ask because for 2018/2019 tax year I didn't take above 50% income Inc. Expenses. But for the other 2 years I was over 50%. So could I get the tax determination/NIC notice cancelled for just 2018/19 tax year?

[Chevalier]

Do you know if this calculation is done per tax year in question? Or across all 3 years? I ask because for 2018/2019 tax year I didn't take above 50% income Inc. Expenses. But for the other 2 years I was over 50%. So could I get the tax determination/NIC notice cancelled for just 2018/19 tax year?

It’s cumulative I’m afraid

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3510

[anthonymccabe90]

If you closed the company then you may be ok anyway. HMRC recently abandoned investigations of companies which had been closed. At the moment it seems they're not interested in re-opening companies.

Just to say that I had thought my company was clsoed down back in May 2020 but unbenknownst to me HMRC had blocked it on companies house and I wasn't made aware the company had remained open/dormant until the beginning of this year when Churchill first sent out communications about the investigation. Does this sound right to people on this forum? Surely they cannot do that? I've not operated through a limited company for years now and had paid for my company to be closed and liquidated when I finished doing so.

Also, as my first post here, I just want to say I am just in utter disbeleif about this whole thing - the entire premise does not make sense to me, I do not understand how an accountant (because they had a portal) can be deemed an employer and even if you somehow accept that logical jump, how it is the responsbility of the unknowing client to pay back taxes? I didn't try to dodge even one penny of tax and I specifically chose an accountant with a really clear service and expertise and not some dodgy guy down the road because I wanted to make 100% sure I did everything by the book.

I can only pray that whomever decides this tribunal sees the lunacy in all this because I cannot afford to pay anything - nor can i contribute £11k to Churchill which to my mind is equally insane.

If anyone has any advice or links to other resources I'd greatly appreciate it as I have just felt utterly powerless and clueless in all this and thus far have tried not to think about it too much because I can't bear it...

[cojak]

Well, for one thing the company that you paid good money to, to close down your company should have informed you that HMRC had lodged an intervention with Companies House. Maslins did so with me when my company was blocked (I had made a minor admin documentation error that was quickly resolved).

I would go back to that company and demand to know why you weren't informed.

[Fred Bloggs]

But on the other hand. I am repeatedly shocked here at how company directors are frequently blissfully unaware that it's their responsibility to make sure everything concerning their company is done correctly and in a timely manner. Delegating that activity to another organisation to carry out doesn't mean you can forget about it. Director remains responsible. Why on earth would anyone not know their company hadn't been stuck off from Companies House? It's the director responsibility to know everything that happens to their company. Far too easy to moan and whinge it's all somebody else's fault. When really, it just isn't.

[Lotok]

I noted previously that I thought Boox had some internal problems with staff leaving, they went from a switchboard, to accountants answering direct and then to a message saying email only.

Now today I noticed their website is offline. The main page is there, but the services, blogs etc pages are offline. I am now wondering if they are winding up business themselves?

[coolparty]

Hi everyone, first time on here and I’m pretty devastated and confused in equal measure, but somewhat relieved that there’s others here in the same boat.

I’ve been a Boox customer since May 2016 and in March this year I received a letter from HMRC demanding £7k tax and over the weekend a new letter demanding £30k NIC (which is absolutely bonkers). So far I’ve had no reply from Boox. I went PAYE in August 2022 to get a bit more stability during these uncertain times and I requested that Boox close my business (this might still be ongoing, but they never got back to me).

I’ve got a couple of questions for everyone if possible:

• Should I wait for Boox to organise a new appeal like they did last time?
• How can I prove that I’m not MSC managed by Boox?
• Is it worth getting in touch with ICAEW who regulate Boox for any support?
• Does the Conditional Overpayment Claim recommended by Boox have any grounds for success?
• Do we have any grounds to take Boox to court as they have misled us?

Apologies if you guys have covered these topics already, it would be super helpful to get your feedback.

[geekergosum]

Just to say that I had thought my company was clsoed down back in May 2020 but unbenknownst to me HMRC had blocked it on companies house and I wasn't made aware the company had remained open/dormant until the beginning of this year when Churchill first sent out communications about the investigation. Does this sound right to people on this forum? Surely they cannot do that? I've not operated through a limited company for years now and had paid for my company to be closed and liquidated when I finished doing so.

Also, as my first post here, I just want to say I am just in utter disbeleif about this whole thing - the entire premise does not make sense to me, I do not understand how an accountant (because they had a portal) can be deemed an employer and even if you somehow accept that logical jump, how it is the responsbility of the unknowing client to pay back taxes? I didn't try to dodge even one penny of tax and I specifically chose an accountant with a really clear service and expertise and not some dodgy guy down the road because I wanted to make 100% sure I did everything by the book.

I can only pray that whomever decides this tribunal sees the lunacy in all this because I cannot afford to pay anything - nor can i contribute £11k to Churchill which to my mind is equally insane.

If anyone has any advice or links to other resources I'd greatly appreciate it as I have just felt utterly powerless and clueless in all this and thus far have tried not to think about it too much because I can't bear it...

[/qoute]

This is exactly what has happened to me. I got in the Gazette and when I checked at the weekend there is an objection. Again not notified by Boox (who are not answering emails).