Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Guy Incognito]

I am really confused about the MSC test cases.

What does it achieve? I imagine it might be possible for HMRC cherry pick a few winnable clients and get a judge to rule CK is a MSCP (for those MSC).

But then what if all 2,000 clients then all request their own FTT?

Wouldn't that cost HMRC too much? How long would it take to process them all?

Do we know if any Costelloe Business Services Limited clients went to FTT after the high court ruling?

[PurelyBlue]

Do the test cases know who they are at this point (i.e. have they been contacted by HMRC and/or CK/Boox)?

[GregRickshaw]

I am really confused about the MSC test cases.

What does it achieve? I imagine it might be possible for HMRC cherry pick a few winnable clients and get a judge to rule CK is a MSCP (for those MSC).

But then what if all 2,000 clients then all request their own FTT?

Wouldn't that cost HMRC too much? How long would it take to process them all?

Do we know if any Costelloe Business Services Limited clients went to FTT after the high court ruling?

It would probably achieve a 90% success of those involved going 'ah fudge it' and just paying cos they couldn't be arsed to fight anymore.

As I have said the uphill battle those who were genuinely not MSC's, which I suspect is at least 98% of those thousands, to then prove then were not MSC would be too much and possibly only line the pockets of the 'experts'

Costelloe? Don't think so, there would be some court documents/rulings if they had I suspect, maybe they are still fighting.

This exercise has managed at least two things, generated a ton of money for HMRC (PoA) - (it's in their banks who knows what they do with it), a ton of money for 'experts' and sent many of CK's clients to brollies or PAYE. It's been a very successful campaign no matter the outcome. Ah that's at least three things

[GregRickshaw]

Do the test cases know who they are at this point (i.e. have they been contacted by HMRC and/or CK/Boox)?

The test cases if they are decided will of course know, they may of course not be on here.

[Lotok]

I do not think Boox will survive the investigation. I decided to close my company and went full time with a client I had. Feels like letting HMRC win but as a single parent with enough to deal with, I couldn't risk more liability.

Anyway, trying sort my final accounts with Boox has been a nightmare. Since April I have been trying to sort it. I chase them constantly, they promise to do it, then don't. They never answer emails either.

I've noticed they went from a switch board redirecting calls to accountants handling calls themselves, then now the phone line just tells you to email (which they always ignore).

I think dwindling staff, likely a loss of clients etc is a good sign they are not in a position to fight this case. They can't even do their day to day stuff now, so no chance they are going to be any use sorting out this mess.

[DealorNoDeal]

I imagine it might be possible for HMRC cherry pick a few winnable clients and get a judge to rule CK is a MSCP (for those MSC).

I'm not sure they can cherry pick that much, and I'm not expecting them to even try.

I have a feeling they're going for broke with this and it's "all or nothing". If they win then they (a) catch all of you but more importantly (b) dramatically lower the bar as to what constitutes an MSC.

[eek]

I'm not sure they can cherry pick that much, and I'm not expecting them to even try.

I have a feeling they're going for broke with this and it's "all or nothing". If they win then they (a) catch all of you but more importantly (b) dramatically lower the bar as to what constitutes an MSC.

The decisions made within CBS seriously lowered the bar - I don’t think these cases actually lower that bar much lower they will just confirm that the very low criteria applied within the CBS case applies elsewhere

[Guy Incognito]

The decisions made within CBS seriously lowered the bar - I don’t think these cases actually lower that bar much lower they will just confirm that the very low criteria applied within the CBS case applies elsewhere

The CBS case was very, very much more clear cut than this. They had clients who didn't know what dividends were! CBS made the payments to HMRC!

[DealorNoDeal]

The decisions made within CBS seriously lowered the bar

I beg to differ. CBS was a lame attempt to get around the MSC legislation. The only surprise is that these IoM clowns thought it would succeed.

CBS created all the PSCs (around 1000 companies)
CBS nominated the registered address and company secretary of every PSC
CBS managed all aspects of every PSC, including invoicing the agencies/end-users

The only involvement the CBS clients had in the arrangement was the formality of signing a few bits of paperwork, and getting paid!

The MSC bar didn't need any lowering to catch this. It was exactly what the legislation was designed to prevent.

[cojak]

I do not think Boox will survive the investigation. I decided to close my company and went full time with a client I had. Feels like letting HMRC win but as a single parent with enough to deal with, I couldn't risk more liability.

Anyway, trying sort my final accounts with Boox has been a nightmare. Since April I have been trying to sort it. I chase them constantly, they promise to do it, then don't. They never answer emails either.

I've noticed they went from a switch board redirecting calls to accountants handling calls themselves, then now the phone line just tells you to email (which they always ignore).

I think dwindling staff, likely a loss of clients etc is a good sign they are not in a position to fight this case. They can't even do their day to day stuff now, so no chance they are going to be any use sorting out this mess.

Sorry to hear that Lotok. Keep plugging away, the squeaky wheel and all that.