Originally posted by Andy2022
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Yes, but they are not proposing PR, they are proposing votes for children and EU residents. PR got loudly and emphatically rejected as an idea in a referendum in 2011 by two votes to one.Blog? What blog...?
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Interesting, that one passed me by in the current manifesto - got a link?Originally posted by malvolio View PostComment
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Why shouldn't 16yr olds get the vote? They can go out to work, pay tax, be tried as an adult when they commit crimes and the future belongs to themOriginally posted by malvolio View Post
As for EU residents… what about taxation without representation? If people (or their dependents) are paying tax in the UK why shouldn't they get the vote too?
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Blog? What blog...?Comment
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Nigel Farage's Reform UK overtakes Tories in yet another bombshell poll
A new survey puts the rebranded Brexit Party one point ahead of the Conservatives.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...rm-tories-poll
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Hardly a bombshell any more. Four polls in last week or so have had Reform ahead of the Tories and five more within a point.Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post
By next week, the headline will be 'Tories scrape 20% and overtake Reform again in bombshell poll.'Comment
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Given that Reform is surging up and the Tories are going down its more likely the gap will widen rather than switch back.Originally posted by edison View Post
Yet another poll, this time for the DailyMirror also shows Reform overtaking the Tories:
Labour - 39% (-2)
Reform - 20% (+2)
Tories - 19 (-)
Lib Dem - 12% (+1)
Green - 6% (-)Last edited by Fraidycat; 21 June 2024, 17:57.Comment
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Not true - the 2011 referendum was about AV (alternative voting) rather than PR. I know that some people voted against it because they wanted PR instead and didn't want to be "fobbed off" with AV; I think that was a tactical error, but I don't think you can assume that everyone who voted against AV is also against PR.Originally posted by malvolio View PostComment
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Pedantically true (the AV/PR debate has a long history) but it was in effect a vote for or against FTTP. A distinction without a difference.Originally posted by hobnob View PostBlog? What blog...?Comment
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I disagree. It was certainly a vote about electoral reform, and both systems are intended to remove the need for tactical voting, but there are important differences between AV and PR.Originally posted by malvolio View Post
Think about the 52:48 ratio from the Brexit referendum, and suppose that party X got 52% of the votes in every constituency.
* Under FPTP, that party would get 100% of the seats (650 MPs).
* Under AV, that party would also get 100% of the seats (650 MPs), whether that was based on first choice or just the point where they stopped counting votes.
* Under PR, that party would get 52% of the seats (338 MPs), and other parties would get the other 48% (312 MPs).
As a more general point, what happens if a party has a minority support base that's spread across the country (e.g. Reform or Green). Should those supporters get an MP to represent them (PR), or should the MP represent the majority in that area (FPTP/AV)?
It's also worth noting that:
a) The LibDems wanted a referendum on PR, but the Conservatives insisted on making it an AV referendum instead (part of the coalition deal). So, the Conservatives presumably thought that there was enough of a difference to make that change worthwhile.
b) The referendum campaign was based on outright lies (in a way that's not possible during a General Election), e.g. exaggerating the costs.
c) I heard people say "AV isn't fair because why you should you get 5 votes when I only get 1 vote?" That wouldn't have been the case for a PR referendum.
d) AV was more complicated to explain (even with "Big Brother" eviction analogies), so it seemed scary/confusing to some people, whereas everyone was familiar with PR from the MEP elections.Comment
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