Gaza blockaded

[JustKeepSwimming]

They should just erect mash tents inside fences and ask palestinians medical staff to volunteer.

Don't think that's going to happen. Not a bad idea to maybe have the Saudis or other friendlier states to provide medical staff to Israel to treat Palestinians only. Whether Israel or the donors would run the risk. Could apply deseclation pressure in Arab countries who don't want to get drawn in but their populace are calling for it.

[JustKeepSwimming]

The Americans have arrived. The entire strip is in darkness apart from what I think it's the Hospital (which Hamas HQ is below). I wonder if they are going to try hostage rescue because now way hostages survive a invasion.

[David71]

I don't 'do' vigils or 'candle waving until tonight when my Jewish Israeli wife and I met up with a mixture of Jewish / Non-Jewish, Israeli, Welsh etc. friends in Cardiff tonight. The one thing that struck me is that my friends, who I've known for 20-odd years are almost 100% left-wing, Guardian reading 'academic' types. Most of them who served in the IDF weren't in combat roles but were teachers, paper pushers, 'Intelligence' types (apart from my wife who was in the Nahal). We've always stayed away from politics because they want to 'hug a pally' while closing down settlements and giving the Palestinians 110% of everything they ask for.
Me?
f&^k the political carrot and get a big stick. if the big stick doesn't teach the 'pallys'? Get a bigger stick! Bigger stick don't work? Time for a Galil and then a Tank.

after the last 4 days, my peacenik fiends are thinking like me

General consensus, and this is from a group who have lost close friends and relatives?

1. Negotiate a deal with Egypt.
2. Egypt opens the Rafah gate between Egypt and Gaza (It's controlled by Egypt but most Hamas / Israeli 'blockade' apologists like to keep that quiet).
3. 24 hours free passage from Gaza to Egypt - any identified terrorists get lifted by Egyptian security forces.
4. 24 hours are up, Egypt closed the Rafah gate, for ever.
5. IDF makes Gaza cease to exist.
6. Clear the rubble, build a park!

I'd like to think I'm not a cruel man, but 'conditions in Gaza, number killed in Gaza, hospital bombed in Gaza, no food, water or power in Gaza?

Don't give a single tulip.

[Zigenare]

I don't 'do' vigils or 'candle waving until tonight when my Jewish Israeli wife and I met up with a mixture of Jewish / Non-Jewish, Israeli, Welsh etc. friends in Cardiff tonight. The one thing that struck me is that my friends, who I've known for 20-odd years are almost 100% left-wing, Guardian reading 'academic' types. Most of them who served in the IDF weren't in combat roles but were teachers, paper pushers, 'Intelligence' types (apart from my wife who was in the Nahal). We've always stayed away from politics because they want to 'hug a pally' while closing down settlements and giving the Palestinians 110% of everything they ask for.
Me?
f&^k the political carrot and get a big stick. if the big stick doesn't teach the 'pallys'? Get a bigger stick! Bigger stick don't work? Time for a Galil and then a Tank.

after the last 4 days, my peacenik fiends are thinking like me

General consensus, and this is from a group who have lost close friends and relatives?

1. Negotiate a deal with Egypt.
2. Egypt opens the Rafah gate between Egypt and Gaza (It's controlled by Egypt but most Hamas / Israeli 'blockade' apologists like to keep that quiet).
3. 24 hours free passage from Gaza to Egypt - any identified terrorists get lifted by Egyptian security forces.
4. 24 hours are up, Egypt closed the Rafah gate, for ever.
5. IDF makes Gaza cease to exist.
6. Clear the rubble, build a park!

I'd like to think I'm not a cruel man, but 'conditions in Gaza, number killed in Gaza, hospital bombed in Gaza, no food, water or power in Gaza?

Don't give a single tulip.

Which I believe is what Israel has been aiming for all along.

Any thoughts on Israeli "Intelligence" failures and the ignoring of warnings from Egypt to Israel that Hamas had "Something big planned" just days before the attack?

[NotAllThere]

Which I believe is what Israel has been aiming for all along.

I don't agree. But we'll see.

There is an idea circulating (promoted by the likes of Jeremy Corbyn) that Israel was aware of the attachs but allowed it so they could respond violently.

[dsc]

I[...]

1. Negotiate a deal with Egypt.
2. Egypt opens the Rafah gate between Egypt and Gaza (It's controlled by Egypt but most Hamas / Israeli 'blockade' apologists like to keep that quiet).
3. 24 hours free passage from Gaza to Egypt - any identified terrorists get lifted by Egyptian security forces.
4. 24 hours are up, Egypt closed the Rafah gate, for ever.
5. IDF makes Gaza cease to exist.
6. Clear the rubble, build a park!

[...]

Can't see how this would work in practice, Egypt, being Egypt isn't going to stop all terrorists, bribes will get paid for passage. Also I read somewhere that the main road on which the corridor can be set is already destroyed.

The big pickle imho is the fact that they partially bombed Gaza and now need to go in there and basically go through the rubble. Any soldier will tell you this is the absolute worse situation, especially fighting a guerrilla like group. Bombing more, won't help much and doing a ground operation will costs lives. This might turn into the next Bachmut and overall won't really eradicate terrorists once and for all.

[Snooky]

I'd like to think I'm not a cruel man

I think you may be in denial.

[lecyclist]

I don't 'do' vigils or 'candle waving until tonight when my Jewish Israeli wife and I met up with a mixture of Jewish / Non-Jewish, Israeli, Welsh etc.

What do you think of Netanyahu as a leader? Do you think he is up to the job after ignoring intelligence warnings of imminent Hamas attacks on Israeli soil? Who would be a better leader?

[Paddy]

What do you think of Netanyahu as a leader? Do you think he is up to the job after ignoring intelligence warnings of imminent Hamas attacks on Israeli soil? Who would be a better leader?

He may have just let it happen in order to have an excuse.
On the other side, Palestinians fear Hamas more than the Israelis.

[David71]

He may have just let it happen in order to have an excuse.
On the other side, Palestinians fear Hamas more than the Israelis.

Like any other county or military, f'ups happen in intelligence and every where else. In time, I am 100% sure Israel will hold enquires and investigations and accountability will be demanded and careers will end if not jail for those who missed or even ignored warnings.

To insinuate there was deliberate ignorance to allow Hamas to attack so enabling a 'tough' Israeli response is, in my opinion, close to anti-Semitism, laughable and disgraceful, all at the same time: while you're at it, why no mention how 'every Jew' working in the Twin Towers phoned in sick on Sep 11 or that the Showers were only used to delouse the 6 million Jews who then amazingly ALL died of typhus?

My view of Bibi and every other Israeli politician is pretty much my view of every UK, US, EU, and (definitely) Welsh Government politician: they are all self serving generally un-hinged borderline criminals; would Bibi ignore warnings for political or nationalistic reasons? No, Not a chance, Not for a moment. Could he have done so in error? Sure, maybe.

Last Israeli PM I rated at all? Ehud Barak.