Update on JCB's pursuit of Hydrogen as their fuel of the future

[cojak]

Internal Combustion Engines also have a limited life.

Yes, but 20 years is a damn sight more than 7-10 years.

I have a mate who bought new in 2017 and was explaining that her old batteries had their limitations.

[northernladuk]

Am I the only one thinking the batteries are going to be a massive problem in 10+ years time when they can't recycle them or they don't have the shelf life the claim make etc? I just can't help thinking this is going to be a disaster at some point in the future. Problem has just moved, not been fixed.

[vetran]

7-10 years is when I used to buy my cars.

Pulling power - Original Nissan Leaf versus an original E type.

[vetran]

Am I the only one thinking the batteries are going to be a massive problem in 10+ years time when they can't recycle them or they don't have the shelf life the claim make etc? I just can't help thinking this is going to be a disaster at some point in the future. Problem has just moved, not been fixed.

no it will all be a blissfully green world and the batteries will be recycled because we are so good at that. Sofas stained with Kebab juice round Brum way are works of art.

but its a 15-20 year lifetime, we probably need to force manufacturers to honour that.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...-car-batteries

[northernladuk]

no it will all be a blissfully green world and the batteries will be recycled because we are so good at that. Sofas stained with Kebab juice round Brum way are works of art.

but its a 15-20 year lifetime, we probably need to force manufacturers to honour that.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...-car-batteries

I wonder whoever said

It makes neither economic nor environmental sense for EV batteries to be dumped in landfill – it just won’t happen.

Is willing to stake his house on that statement.

I can't help thinking your standard backstreet garage won't be so committed to spending money dealing with them if they ever get round to servicing them.

[sadkingbilly]

we probably need to force manufacturers to honour that.

oh, dear, more foot stamping and breath holding then.
poor deluded little twit

[vetran]

oh, dear, more foot stamping and breath holding then.
poor deluded little twit

you on the juice already?

[d000hg]

JCB have already explained why. A Battery JCB working an 8 hour shift would need recharging 2-3 times making it useless for a few hours of work time. Same for many Trains, lorries, buses etc. Hydrogen can be used like diesel JCB have made it Kilo to Kilo energy equivalent. The Americans and Europeans (especially the Germans & Netherlands) are trialling it.

Those are totally different use cases to cars though. Taxis and delivery vehicles are closer and similarly don't work well as EVs but 90% of cars spend 90% of the time not being used (made up stat). Specialist vehicles need specialist solutions, in a small way you already see that since cars prefer petrol and industrial vehicles prefer diesel.

[Hairlocks]

Key things are

1. Cars have lower demands than most other vehicles.
2. Despite extensive testing JCB one of the world leading construction vehicle manufacturer has decided battery vehicles will not fit their use case. Hydrogen can & will.
3. Caterpillar the other big digger manufacturer is looking at Hydrogen.
4. Daimler,Volvo,DAF & Mercedes the big Truck manufacturers are going Hydrogen.
5. Siemens the train maker is going Hydrogen.
6. The Grid will be unable to support a totally electrical future without a complete rebuild in most countries.
7. The batteries will become electrical waste and we are really good with electrical waste. Just see the beaches in India.

So no you don't have answers and clever people are going hydrogen for certain use cases.

We probably won't see hydrogen cars soon but larger vehicles we will.

Toyota is (was) the worlds leading car manufacture and has only just realised Tesla have left them behind. They where still recently claiming EV where not going to work like most of the legacy car manufacturers have done.

This video on the use of hydrogen is quite interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgmBkvrO0Dg the hydrogen expert only thinks there "might" be a market for hydrogen in construction vehicles

I think point 6 is not true, but even if it was would be easier to solve that a hydrogen infrastructure. Point 7 is the only real downside, Elon Musk claims it would be easier to recycle the batteries than mine new raw products, but we are not at the point yet to find out for real.

[eek]

Toyota is (was) the worlds leading car manufacture and has only just realised Tesla have left them behind. They where still recently claiming EV where not going to work like most of the legacy car manufacturers have done.

This video on the use of hydrogen is quite interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgmBkvrO0Dg the hydrogen expert only thinks there "might" be a market for hydrogen in construction vehicles

I think point 6 is not true, but even if it was would be easier to solve that a hydrogen infrastructure. Point 7 is the only real downside, Elon Musk claims it would be easier to recycle the batteries than mine new raw products, but we are not at the point yet to find out for real.

On point 6 - just as a single example. At Scotch Corner they are building a new outlet mall. Iniital work was done in 2019 but due to covid all work stopped until late last year.

During that time charging electric vehicles has become a most have item. So the road to Richmond was closed for 8 weeks to facilitate additional power cables into the site.

So it's very much the case that we can't provide the power required for HGVs to become electric.