Update on JCB's pursuit of Hydrogen as their fuel of the future

[Hairlocks]

Except that link does say that tyre wear is greater (you just have to read past the bits about brakes, etc)

Unsurprising since Teslas weigh 300 - 1000kg more than the equivalent ICE car. Or do you deny that they weigh more?

The are heavier. but the article does conclude.

"Real EV fleets are already seeing brake lifespans increased fourfold versus the diesel vehicles they have replaced, and tyre wear that is broadly on par with petrol and diesel cars (unless, as like with any vehicle, the drivers get a bit throttle happy!)."

I can find the bit they say tyre wear is greater.

[malvolio]

The are heavier. but the article does conclude.

"Real EV fleets are already seeing brake lifespans increased fourfold versus the diesel vehicles they have replaced, and tyre wear that is broadly on par with petrol and diesel cars (unless, as like with any vehicle, the drivers get a bit throttle happy!)."

I can find the bit they say tyre wear is greater.

What that ignores is that the tyres for EVs are heavier and stiffer than "normal" road tyres. So wear may well be the same, but that does not mean they are not shedding more rubber...

Incidentally, most ICE engines last rather longer than the 5-6 years predicted for EV battery packs.

[eek]

What that ignores is that the tyres for EVs are heavier and stiffer than "normal" road tyres. So wear may well be the same, but that does not mean they are not shedding more rubber...

Incidentally, most ICE engines last rather longer than the 5-6 years predicted for EV battery packs.

If EV batteries have a life of 5-6 years (little evidence to back that up btw unless you include Nissan who never really cared until recently) thery will still have a secondary life in homes for many more years

[sadkingbilly]

If EV batteries have a life of 5-6 years (little evidence to back that up btw unless you include Nissan who never really cared until recently) thery will still have a secondary life in homes for many more years

retirement homes for batteries? who'd've thought?

[malvolio]

If EV batteries have a life of 5-6 years (little evidence to back that up btw unless you include Nissan who never really cared until recently) thery will still have a secondary life in homes for many more years

Yebbut - how much does it cost to put a replacement battery pack into your EV?

I agree that the batteries have long cycle lifetimes, but there are a lot of them under the floor of the car, and one going bad will cause problems.


This is all a bit academic anyway. The real argument is about the whole life cost of the energy to move a car from London to Milton Keynes and back and the infrastructure to deliver it. Of course even the rubbish services in place now are a lot better than filling stations for Hydrogen. That won't change unless you can buy a fuel cell vehicle - and they are starting to be built.

[Hairlocks]

JCB have already explained why. A Battery JCB working an 8 hour shift would need recharging 2-3 times making it useless for a few hours of work time. Same for many Trains, lorries, buses etc. Hydrogen can be used like diesel JCB have made it Kilo to Kilo energy equivalent. The Americans and Europeans (especially the Germans & Netherlands) are trialling it.

Yes you can transmit electricity to a car if its there when you generate it. Sadly most are at work, travelling or commuting. Possibly we could charge them overnight if we get a steady load.

Storage is the problem so unless we turn Swindon & Milton Keynes into a hydroelectric plant we might as well look at hydrogen.

Like everything it depends. The battery car may be the right solution for some but will the grid support it?

If we replace electric trains & buses will that mean more electricity capacity for cars?

Hydrogen can be generated using excess green energy, so generating hydrogen by wind turbines, wave or solar is an option.

Thanks for the reply.

I think JCB are behaving like a legacy car company and assuming ICE is the answer. large diggers don't need to be low weight, if anything the weight of the batteries will be a help. The answer is to make the batteries big enough. Volvo are building battery power construction equipment so I can foresee JCB ceasing to be if they don't adapt.

All your other questions have extensive answers I already know, have been repeated in Tesla's investor day or by The National Grid (electricity usage has dropped over the years.)

[Hairlocks]

Incidentally, most ICE engines last rather longer than the 5-6 years predicted for EV battery packs.

Where did you get that figure from. The early leafs where bad to the batteries, but even the lastest model shouldn't be that bad. Tesla have a 8 year warranty on the battery pack and it is not like they just stop working, most will just have a shorter range.

[eek]

Thanks for the reply.

I think JCB are behaving like a legacy car company and assuming ICE is the answer. large diggers don't need to be low weight, if anything the weight of the batteries will be a help. The answer is to make the batteries big enough. Volvo are building battery power construction equipment so I can foresee JCB ceasing to be if they don't adapt.

All your other questions have extensive answers I already know, have been repeated in Tesla's investor day or by The National Grid (electricity usage has dropped over the years.)

The issue isn't whether batteries are the solution its whether the equipment can afford the downtime required to charge the batteries up.

Which is why Hydrogen (heck even Diesel) works really well for some use cases.

[xoggoth]

What do you suggest? Lighter vehicles but more of them?

Fred Flintstone cars. Skin flakes are biodegradable.

[vetran]

Thanks for the reply.

I think JCB are behaving like a legacy car company and assuming ICE is the answer. large diggers don't need to be low weight, if anything the weight of the batteries will be a help. The answer is to make the batteries big enough. Volvo are building battery power construction equipment so I can foresee JCB ceasing to be if they don't adapt.

All your other questions have extensive answers I already know, have been repeated in Tesla's investor day or by The National Grid (electricity usage has dropped over the years.)

You keep saying well Tesla is doing it, he is with cars. Not with real big vehicles. His battery powered trucks won't transport a bridge.

JCB do not make cars, their vehicles have higher demands.

DAF however did

https://www.daf.co.uk/en-gb/trucks/a...lines/hydrogen

Daimler & Volvo still do

https://www.fleetowner.com/emissions...ydrogen-trucks

Hydrogen is for higher demand vehicles.

Siemens are not really car manufacturers

https://www.mobility.siemens.com/glo...eo-plus-h.html


Key things are

1. Cars have lower demands than most other vehicles.
2. Despite extensive testing JCB one of the world leading construction vehicle manufacturer has decided battery vehicles will not fit their use case. Hydrogen can & will.
3. Caterpillar the other big digger manufacturer is looking at Hydrogen.
4. Daimler,Volvo,DAF & Mercedes the big Truck manufacturers are going Hydrogen.
5. Siemens the train maker is going Hydrogen.
6. The Grid will be unable to support a totally electrical future without a complete rebuild in most countries.
7. The batteries will become electrical waste and we are really good with electrical waste. Just see the beaches in India.

So no you don't have answers and clever people are going hydrogen for certain use cases.

We probably won't see hydrogen cars soon but larger vehicles we will.