[OFFICIAL] Ukraine Thread

[DealorNoDeal]

When given the chance they decided what they wanted to do, but what they decided turned out to be disastrous for them.

If someone decided to walk off a cliff, would you think it was a monstrous injustice that their broken bones meant they couldn't get up at the bottom and just walk away? No, of course not, because the laws of physics mean it isn't a very good idea to jump off cliffs in the first place. Only here instead of physics, it is the laws of politics.

Has Putin invaded Ukraine largely because of the expansion of NATO?

He says that's one of the reasons but who knows what's really going on inside his head. He clearly made up some of the other justifications, like getting rid of the Nazis and drug addicts running Ukraine.

Maybe he's always had the intention of restoring the old USSR or creating Russia 2.0.

[WTFH]

Buffer countries were perfectly at liberty to do what they want. NATO shouldn't have encouraged them in my opinion. Also, those Buffer countries will have some degree of geopolitical awareness; surely they must have had some inkling that Putin might not be happy with their westernisation.

Ah, so "buffer countries" are perfectly at liberty to do what they want... as long as it doesn't cause a problem. In other words, they are still not at liberty.

[Fraidycat]

Has Putin invaded Ukraine largely because of the expansion of NATO?

He says that's one of the reasons but who knows what's really going on inside his head. He clearly made up some of the other justifications, like getting rid of the Nazis and drug addicts running Ukraine.

Putin wants regime change and keep nato out, but he needs more than that to sell the war to this people

This what the US and UK as well:

Real reason: Iraq has oil and we want regime change there.

Additional made up stuff to sell the war to the people: Iraq was responsible or 911 (this excuse was used more in the US than in the UK), Iraq has WMD's and can attack the UK in 45 minutes.

[Paddy]

Putin wants regime change and keep nato out, but he needs more than that to sell the war to this people

This what the US and UK as well:

Real reason: Iraq has oil and we want regime change there.

Additional made up stuff to sell the war to the people: Iraq was responsible or 911 (this excuse was used more in the US than in the UK), Iraq has WMD's and can attack the UK in 45 minutes.

You obviously did not hear or read Putin's speech.

[NotAllThere]

A Russian friend has contacted me with the latest rumours.
1. The propaganda machine is talking about Ukraine having nuclear weapons, and there's a lot of talk about the effect of nuclear weapons. This could be seen to be preparing the Russian people for a "retaliatory" first strike. (And you though Blair was bad).
2. Putin is very ill with cancer. He's a man in a hurry.

[Paddy]

A Russian friend has contacted me with the latest rumours.
1. The propaganda machine is talking about Ukraine having nuclear weapons, and there's a lot of talk about the effect of nuclear weapons. This could be seen to be preparing the Russian people for a "retaliatory" first strike. (And you though Blair was bad).
2. Putin is very ill with cancer. He's a man in a hurry.

It makes sense if the rumour is true

[BlueSharp]

A Russian friend has contacted me with the latest rumours.
1. The propaganda machine is talking about Ukraine having nuclear weapons, and there's a lot of talk about the effect of nuclear weapons. This could be seen to be preparing the Russian people for a "retaliatory" first strike. (And you though Blair was bad).
2. Putin is very ill with cancer. He's a man in a hurry.

If one is true then surely that would mean mutually assured destruction even if they did strike first. Putin looks very bloated last few times he has been on TV so very well could be ill.

[d000hg]

Putin looks very bloated last few times he has been on TV so very well could be ill.

That's just the Western MSM trying to make him look weak.

[Fraidycat]

Russian terms for surrender


Ukraine must:

• Cease military action
• Change its constitution to enshrine neutrality
• Acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory
• Recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/russia-say...121826715.html

[NotAllThere]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...arus-z7cf3mjxr (paywall)

Same thing. But while it would be Ukraine admitting defeat, we all know that they won and Russia Putin lost big time. No reason why the Western nations shouldn't invest heavily in a neutral Ukraine while keeping sanctions against Russia.