Hybrid versus 100% remote working

[mattster]

If you never have any face to face contact and it's so unsynchronised, does anyone who actually matters even notice whether you're in the office when you go in? Seems like you could just not go in and nobody would notice.

This has indeed been happening, but we have been warned that key card info is now being used to check in-office claims (we need to fill an online calendar in with our office attendance). Bonkers. This btw a reasonable size commercial bank.

[mattster]

This is a inside gig I assume? Love the arbitrary flex of "we own you, come in (even though there's no real point)".

Inside, yes. And since I am 1.5 hours by train outside of Waterloo (2.5 hours total commute) the cost of this pointless attendance is not insignificant - and non-expensible of course.

[Paralytic]

This has indeed been happening, but we have been warned that key card info is now being used to check in-office claims (we need to fill an online calendar in with our office attendance). Bonkers. This btw a reasonable size commercial bank.

A friend who works for a bank (perm) is classed as hybrid worker. Officially 6 days per month in office, but its pretty flexible based on where colleagues are located (co-located teams). However, there's a "naughty list" that gets produced showing people who don't clock in at least once a month. He didn't go in one month and his manager said he appeared on it and asked he up his office attendance a bit.

[SussexSeagull]

I can't help but think most contractors - with the exception of those with one of these mythical niche skills that allows them to avoid any downtown in market or economic circumstances - who refuse to visit an office occasionally are going to be chasing an ever dwindling pool of contracts in the next few years as the new normal establishes itself. You might very well be able to do your job at home but some clients want to actually see what they are paying for.

That said the problem starts when, like in my example, you sign up to one day a week in the office then a manager goes rogue and starts pushing for extra ones at late notice when you live 150 miles away.

[TheDude]

Those whose business model is living somewhere cheap whilst earning London day rates are going to need to find a new business model.

[ShandyDrinker]

Those whose business model is living somewhere cheap whilst earning London day rates are going to need to find a new business model.

Either that or they're going to have to suck up the commuting costs. Although pre-pandemic I was primarily WFH, there's no doubt that with a looming recession (no, there won't be a soft landing), many companies are relishing exerting their desire for a return to a presenteeism culture. Micro-managers everywhere will be rejoicing.

Although I live in the hole that is Swindon, it's relatively easy access to London, even if downright expensive and with crossrail (sorry, the Elizabeth Line), it makes the commute bearable. Having done 5 days a week to Canary Wharf for long period, I know how brutal regular long commutes can be; on a good day the return journey was 3hrs 30 mins, on a bad day well in excess of 4 hrs.

I'm getting to the point now where I really am considering selling up, moving (back) up north, being mortgage free and saying to hell with it all. While I know I'll still have to work, anywhere on the East Coast main line but close enough to Leeds/Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham/etc should so just fine.

I don't know how many people on these forums are mortgage free, but for me it's now becoming the sole biggest driver.

[PCTNN]

My place seems to have managed to combine the worst of all worlds, in that we have a specified number of office days but they are not synchronised in any way. The upshot of this is that I have been in this role for just over a year and have yet to have an in-person meeting at all.

Yes, same at my client's.

Took us 4 months of discussions/meetings/workshops to agree to come in 1 day a month. Another 6 months have passed and still there has been no agreement on which day this should be. We were adamant to have that 1 day where everyone would be in and we could do face to face and would not accept invitations for Teams meeting. It did not work. At all. Some folks can't do Mondays because abc...others can't do Tuesdays because xyz...Senior managers (perm) don't care one bit because they're in the office everyday regardless.

So now I'm just going in whenever I feel I need a change of scenario and a break from home. I also go in to show face when it's renewal time and generally bring a box of pastries. Can't hurt.

[dsc]

A friend who works for a bank (perm) is classed as hybrid worker. Officially 6 days per month in office, but its pretty flexible based on where colleagues are located (co-located teams). However, there's a "naughty list" that gets produced showing people who don't clock in at least once a month. He didn't go in one month and his manager said he appeared on it and asked he up his office attendance a bit.

What's the reason for going in at least once a month? what cannot be done remotely? I personally don't get the whole "you have to come in X times a month" approach, if you are a manager who can't understand what your team is doing / working on and whether they are delivering or doing bugger all and you need to see them to somehow know they are working, then you are a tulipe manager, end of.

I fully understand that sometimes there's an actual hardware rig you can only work on locally or there's tasks you have to do with other people, but these are exceptions not the rule. If you go in just to talk to people face to face instead of on Teams, then sorry, but it's a waste of everyone's time.

[Bluenose]

For those who have been taking these hybrid roles, how does it actually play out? Are the clients militant "Monday is office day" or do you pick when you come in? In practice does it end up that you WFH 100% once things are going smoothly?
If it's one day a week do you manage to swing it you work a short day so you can travel from further afield and still keep the gig, or stay 1 night in a hotel, or does it mean you only take local roles?

It's not a simple answer.

I think this thread is proving that there are differences in personal opinion even in the I.T world about what's going on within the office itself as much as the application of the rules by HR.

Personally, for Hybrid roles, I think it plays out very messily as you have peeps that want to come in on different days and you can end up not seeing anyone you know for weeks on end. The rest of your team are scattered all over the U.K and Globally, making Hybrid a bit of a joke, as it was before the pandemic.

As I, like thousands of others like me trudge into the office, to boot up the laptop just to talk on MS teams all day (sometimes) to people that are elsewhere.

You end-up with the bizarre situation of a room full of people that don't know each other, don't work with each other, speaking into head-sets to people that they really need to speak to - elsewhere. These workplaces have now turned into, what I would expect, looks like an Indian call centre.

This has been the problem with the front-office in Banks and Insurance driving HR policy across the company, the way they work in the front office is nothing like the way modern I.T works in the back office.

You have, I think, therefore, a clear group of people that work inside the M25 loop on lower-paid Inside IR35 gigs and live within that bubble and therefore have a different world-view to other posters on the forum because they fit within the HR group-think that perpetuates inside the M25 financial services bubble.

Sometimes I think I preferred it before COVID where I signed up to an onsite gig outside of IR35 but never actually went into the London office apart from for group workshops because then, it was not such a political football, as you can see from the thread from some of the comments here.

People have been earning above London rates for working outside of London for almost 10 years now, since about 2014. It's the London market rates that have been low-ball bids and this shows a lack of understanding (in places) of how the U.K market has shifted in the past 10 years.

I think the combination of low-ball inside IR35 contracts within the M25 means that: an Inside I35 contract within London, at low-ball rates is not only financial suicide now, it also has a large negative on your personal well-being as the same low-ball clients in financial services are now trying to enforce a 3-day onsite rule.

What I think it means, is that the brain drain on London will continue to accelerate as there are better alternatives to putting up with that nonsense medium to long-term. If Amazon, Meta et. all want to join in with the policy then that's fine by me, I don't fit in there anyway and I suspect that their competitors in these spaces will offer better terms.

[gables]

Yes, same at my client's.

Took us 4 months of discussions/meetings/workshops to agree to come in 1 day a month. Another 6 months have passed and still there has been no agreement on which day this should be. We were adamant to have that 1 day where everyone would be in and we could do face to face and would not accept invitations for Teams meeting. It did not work. At all. Some folks can't do Mondays because abc...others can't do Tuesdays because xyz...Senior managers (perm) don't care one bit because they're in the office everyday regardless.

So now I'm just going in whenever I feel I need a change of scenario and a break from home. I also go in to show face when it's renewal time and generally bring a box of pastries. Can't hurt.

This kind of thing happened years before covid when an office I worked in went totally hot-desking and people could work from home, but when we agreed to go in as a team we couldn't get sat next to each other due to first come first served basis LOL compounded by the fact some people decided to not work at home at all so claimed a particular desk was theirs We decided not to go in