State of the Market

[dsc]

I agree with the other on this too! I tend to find them more micromanaged, expected onsite most or all of the time, less autonomy and worse working conditions. That said I’d always consider if I needed the money and the market was bad.

Because often they are just perm positions "converted" to contract. So they assume you are just a permie, hence more management, you have a "line" manager etc.

[tjccjt01]

That's true and fine, but going in to contract knowing you will be jumping as soon as possible is not the same. Would you like it if a client took you on knowing once they found another contractor half you rate they would terminate you even if it was a week after you started?

Obviously not. I wouldn't put it past some companies to do that though. Just shows you how much loyalty there is between clients and contractors.

[Unix]

Obviously not. I wouldn't put it past some companies to do that though. Just shows you how much loyalty there is between clients and contractors.

Loyalty is the wrong word, while there is work and you are delivering at a high level they will keep you. Loyalty in this case means, "this guy/girl is good, we might not find someone as good so keep them while there is enough work and budget"

[sreed]

Because often they are just perm positions "converted" to contract. So they assume you are just a permie, hence more management, you have a "line" manager etc.

Absolutely. Hopefully, one can spot these from a mile off from the rate and JD. They want to have their cake and eat it - perm pay converted as-is to a day rate, and the flexibility of hiring a contractor.

[SussexSeagull]

When I sign up for a contract I do so with the intent of completing it and I hope the client does the same. I once had to serve notice due to the very real threat of me punching the guy I was reporting to.

[northernladuk]

Loyalty is the wrong word, while there is work and you are delivering at a high level they will keep you. Loyalty in this case means, "this guy/girl is good, we might not find someone as good so keep them while there is enough work and budget"

Correct. tjccjt01 is thinking like a permie. It's purely transaction and they need to think more like a business. Client has a need as is willing to pay for that need up to the point it's not needed. If the work finishes, the contractor is good, they get more work. A contractor agrees to do a piece of work up to a point the work is done or they can no longer do the work. That's business. There is no loyalty. Just good work and pay.

Also when he says he wouldn't put it past some companies. I think an attitude adjustment would help here. Companies rarely swap good contractors who are delivering to an expected price. Your role could be offshored for sure but you've got to see this coming. They don't do this type of thing just based on saving a bit per day. Happens but not often. How many contractors leave early because it suits them.... loads. We are the bigger problem, not the clients.

[simes]

When I take a contract I commit to finishing it. It's part of my work ethic so wouldn't take something then jump every time a higher rate appears. It's served me well with extension, returns to old clients. I would rather take a month off and preserve my dignity with not taking a low rate. What's next working in McDonalds just to keep the pennies coming in?

An ethos I have adopted in the past and, if provided with OIR35 contracts, will continue to do so.

Where I have now reconsidered is if I 'needed' to take an IIR35 contract based on the client not putting any effort in themselves to assess the situation and have decided to just not deal with LtdCos, then I would not bat an eyelid or skip a beat if an OIR35 gig came up and I got it. I daresay this may incur some negative feedback, but I also feel that the clients need to be encouraged to look into this, and if their projects falter due to people skipping to OIR35 gigs, this may then incur some efforts on their part.

Thoughts?

[northernladuk]

An ethos I have adopted in the past and, if provided with OIR35 contracts, will continue to do so.

Where I have now reconsidered is if I 'needed' to take an IIR35 contract based on the client not putting any effort in themselves to assess the situation and have decided to just not deal with LtdCos, then I would not bat an eyelid or skip a beat if an OIR35 gig came up and I got it. I daresay this may incur some negative feedback, but I also feel that the clients need to be encouraged to look into this, and if their projects falter due to people skipping to OIR35 gigs, this may then incur some efforts on their part.

Thoughts?

The only difference between an inside gig an outside one is the way its treated for tax. The attitude of the client or contractor should be no different. Exactly the same expectations exist and there is still a contract.

You can't be thinking you are being principled sticking with an outside one but screwing an inside one over. They are the same thing. Blaming the client and just being mercenary because it is inside is still a poor attitude. You don't know why they've put it inside, you are making assumptions based on unfounded hate of inside rather than just doing business as already mentioned.

If the client wants inside then that's the terms you accept and you deliver professionally. It's not free reign to act like an idiot. If you are just treating it as a stop gap until you get something better then that's your call but the more people do it the worse it's going to be for all of us.

All IMO.

[dsc]

[...]I also feel that the clients need to be encouraged to look into this, and if their projects falter due to people skipping to OIR35 gigs, this may then incur some efforts on their part.

Thoughts?

I very much doubt a big corp will be "scared" into going outside. They make this decisions based on risk and the risk dept doesn't give two tulips that the devs hired as IIR35 can't code and all the good people are going to outside contracts. Besides, reality is that there's very little OIR35 contracts, so this isn't even really an argument anymore.

[sreed]

Obviously not. I wouldn't put it past some companies to do that though. Just shows you how much loyalty there is between clients and contractors.

Agreed. The relationship between a client and a contractor is purely business.

They take me on for certain reasons (only some of which I will be privy to) and I take on a contract for my own reasons (not all of which they will be privy to).

For obvious reasons, agents/clients may withhold some information (eg: they’ve advertised a 6m contract but only have a budget for 3 at the moment, or they won’t know whether a project will go ahead until a day or two before the supposed start date, etc.) that might well be material to the contractor’s decision to take on a contract, and vice versa. In the same vein, I might take on a 6 month contract in Feb/March while knowing that I won’t be available over summer. If they can accommodate my unpaid absence then good, if not then we part ways and that’s fine as well.

That’s just how things are, nothing wrong with that at all in my book. Of course this is just my personal opinion and approach and it’s worked absolutely fine for me.