State of the Market

[JustKeepSwimming]

Anyone who can't live comfortably on 100K+ has either made bad life choices or needs to reconsider their life choices. Have some self-accountability.

I have friends whose household income is £120-150k. So it's about £7k a month net, with a reasonable amount put into their pension. Secure perm roles, not London and 5 minutes commute. 2 kids.

They only have one car now too.

Still claim to be constantly struggling and with hefty unsecured debt. They have had well paid jobs for about 7 years. I just have no idea where their money goes.

[dsc]

You get to explore new things, meet new people, see new places and enjoy sun. Isn't that what life is? [...]

Not for everyone though, might work for you, won't work for all. I agree however that London is silly expensive, no idea how people afford it tbh after seeing prices of takeaway food at Spitalfields a few weeks back, seems like everything is easily 30% more (and I'm not saying it's bad as ingredients go up in price, but salaries are not keeping up). Re food in general in the UK vs Easter Europe, again, agreed, food in the UK is tulipe and I'm from Poland, so this is not some anecdote I heard somewhere, but you can get some really outstanding restaurants in London which are not even that expensive (and the diversity of food which you'll also not get in Eastern Europe).

[GigiBronz]

Except for most people living here in the UK, there's a 90/180 day rule on visiting the Schengen zone post-Brexit.

I think you're living in a bubble here. Not everybody lives or wants to live in London or the South East. I've lived in Surrey, Sussex and mid-week in London over a 10 year period. Enjoyed it but I prefer it up here in Yorkshire, my place of birth, or Southern Spain where I have a holiday home, but I couldn't live there permanently.

Most people can't afford a mortgage in Yorkshire because they have rent to pay for a place near where they can get a job. With most of the jobs requiring now a few days on site, a mortgage in the north is a luxury to me.

But I've also been born too late, started work in 2015 which means I missed the gravy train.

I have friends whose household income is £120-150k. So it's about £7k a month net, with a reasonable amount put into their pension. Secure perm roles, not London and 5 minutes commute. 2 kids.

They only have one car now too.

Still claim to be constantly struggling and with hefty unsecured debt. They have had well paid jobs for about 7 years. I just have no idea where their money goes.

Do you know of any sensible areas that you can get a 2 bed flat / house for less than 2k (with bills)?
Childcare is 1.5k for each child.
food 1.2k for the family.
Going out, travel, clothes for the children (they outgrow them very often) easily 1k

6k easily, add pension and that's it.

If one of the parents earns above 100k they have to do pension contributions otherwise they lose the "free" 30 childcare hours.

I heard somewhere, but you can get some really outstanding restaurants in London which are not even that expensive (and the diversity of food which you'll also not get in Eastern Europe).

they exist but you probably won't be able to get a table during the lunch hours or it will involve more than the 40min lunch break people usually take. So pointless.
That's why wagies usually stick with the healthy option - Tesco / Sainsbury or if they are fancy Waitrose MEAL DEAL.

[Bluenose]

Anyone who can't live comfortably on 100K+ has either made bad life choices or needs to reconsider their life choices. Have some self-accountability.

Trying to keep things on topic, I think the state of the market has increased the problems that were already there in terms of generation age gaps. In a good market and lower tax economy these problems are sticky plastered by money. In a bad market with a weaponised HMRC looking to take 50-54% of earnings, questions start to get asked about the direction of the country, society and our industry.

Our women, in our generation, want to have kids and keep working. We want to bring the kids up and educate them in a place that does not resemble a warzone, surrounded by narcotics fiends, their ecosystem or, a community where 25-30%+ don't work.

You are looking at 2.8k-3k per month in childcare costs alone, for 2 young kids. 100K net is approx. 5.5k per month. Quick mafs?

Gigibronz is quite raw in his summary of the macro situation but I think he is bang on, the maths no longer work.

[rocktronAMP]

Well this is all still pretty tulip.

I've been searching for 3 months, I've had a few leads, a few interviews but nothing yet. I have even been having a few calls on the burner (but nowhere near enough!).

War chest is OK, so I'm not in dire straits yet, but still getting annoyed with it all but know I have to keep on with the job search.

But it occurs to me that July and particularly Aug are probably going to be a dead loss, since business is usually dead anyway! Isn't the normal year business bounce in Sep?

Anyone any (hopefully a little upbeat) theories about the short term? I guess once inflation actually starts to drop (supposed to be by the year-end) the interest rate increases should stop (even though there is supposed to be a monetary lag). So maybe business confidence and stocks might be up in the autumn if they are forward-looking.

Half wondering about scaling down the job search over Jul, Aug and heading off to hotter climes.

I know this is anonymous, but perhaps revealing some details of your circumstance will help us to give advice.

What is your role type? Dev, DevOps, Proj Manager

Where do you want to work? I know now that everyone says remote to hybrid, for example, I can/could commute about 1 hour by train to central London to meet clients. So my geographic location is the South East, home counties.

How many years experience? 5, 10, 15

The thing is lots of businesses now are tightening their belts, a few are looking for engineers, and yet a lot are looking for extra focus.
In other words, they want a proven "track record" / so called "evidence". So if you have been presenting at user groups, blogging, coding and/or even a "good intentioneed" loud mouth of Twitter that might be the thing that sets you apart from other contractors who are searching.
It is crazy. How can you/I give extra? But that is just the way it is now in 2023.

-- addendum --

Also I have seen that some firms don't really help you. I have seen the stanza explicitly written in a slidedeck / word document. "Do not give too much details back to the unsuccessful candidate. Never give written feedback. For all feedback reasons refer to HR directly". It explains a lot why you don't get an idea in a culture-fit check and you get a lot of hazy-shady responses after the initial telephone call. Also firms are looking for warning signs "cynicism", "over friendliness", "sarcasm and snarkiness" , "I only want to code in Python and I don't care the rest of the team using JavaScript" - a lot of it permiedom nonsense, but it filtering over strongly to the contracting side. So bear it in mind when talking to potential clients and good luck.

[rocktronAMP]

There is not a single scenario that I can think of that would bring a positive light to the entire situation. I would sell car, house or any possessions as well and reconsider life in a place with lower cost of living / better quality of life / better climate. Do only remote roles where you can consider lower pay, return only when necessary (high paying contract). Do not hold assets that can be hard to offload (house, car, furniture etc)

There is no point earning 110k in the uk if you can barely raise your children, it is just indentured servitude with few extra steps.

this guy gets it.

Ah. the so called Tech Lead Guy.

DON'T. Facebook fired him, because he was ineffectual. He only cares about Crypto Currency that failed. Waste of time watching endless Youtube videos that are really "air" guitar volumes of advice and a misogynistic twat of person. He is not a leader of decent people or even teams.

[NotAllThere]

Off topic posts removed. (Well, some of them).

[sreed]

Lol what is going on in this thread. Is this some kind of wind up?

I’m generally happy with my life and prospects here and don’t agree with all the hyperbole and doomsday prophecies but I’ve got no quarrel with your opinions about London, UK, the tax environment, etc, to each their own.

If you’re still based in the UK - why? You’re skilled and it’s so easy to move nowadays. If tax is an issue then perhaps move to some place like Dubai which appears to be all the rage now with the TikTok/YouTube finfluencer crowd.

[agentzero]

Lol what is going on in this thread. Is this some kind of wind up?

I’m generally happy with my life and prospects here and don’t agree with all the hyperbole and doomsday prophecies but I’ve got no quarrel with your opinions about London, UK, the tax environment, etc, to each their own.

If you’re still based in the UK - why? You’re skilled and it’s so easy to move nowadays. If tax is an issue then perhaps move to some place like Dubai which appears to be all the rage now with the TikTok/YouTube finfluencer crowd.

GigiBronz is the resident troll, constantly negative. Had a major personality change on this forum during the early phase of the pandemic. Changed to your stereotypical tech bro cryptocurrency tulipcoin know it all nihilist.

To put some perspective to things, I had a good outside contract last year until new year and then got another in Feburary on a very good outside rate. I'm not going to mention my industry because I like it being niche, but anybody can view ITJobsWatch or a similar website to see which roles clients deem to be scarce.

I've worked in loads of countries before, just like many of our posters here have too. The UK has drawbacks but also good things too, which will become more desirable given climate change. Within 10 years I doubt many workers who have moved to southern Spain will be satisfied. Swings and roundabouts.

[TheDude]

Two approaches for roles at banks with very decent rates.

Current client has indicated they will be switching to three days a week in the office so have applied for both.