Reply to: NSS - new citizens will need somewhere to live.

[Zigenare]

Upright people who hold them to account! There seem to be a shortage of these in the government.

That's what happens when one elects career politicians.

We need more like Dennis Skinner, in all parties!

[vetran]

Then why haven't we got the governments we elected to do that?

Because we have only two parties and currently their policies are identical. They don't expect the electorate to rebel. As mentioned its happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...trol-and-order

But now across western Europe, far-right parties are advancing: climbing steadily up the polls, shaping the policies of the mainstream right to reflect nativist and populist platforms, and occupying select ministerial roles in coalition governments.

Governments need to govern for the people and not for their own pockets.
How do we stop electing people who want to fill their own pockets?

Upright people who hold them to account! There seem to be a shortage of these in the government.

[SueEllen]

Well as the basic thrust was if we increase the population we need to up house building and services even the slaver could understand it. Its not a moral judgement its just math.

Then why haven't we got the governments we elected to do that?

There are indications that electorates across Europe are turning to right wing parties because they feel their opinions are being ignored.

Governments need to govern for the people and not for their own pockets.

Stop moralising ignoring the facts (most European countries lock up more foreign nationals than locals etc.) and start thinking!

How do we stop electing people who want to fill their own pockets?

[vetran]

Much of the content of this thread seems like watching GBeebies on a bad day.

I don't disagree that we only have room for so many people in our country, and that we should control who we allow to enter and also provide enough services and facilities for everyone. However I very much dispute assertions or implications that immigration somehow leads to more trouble and is a drain on our society.

Immigrants are people. People generally want security, food, shelter, education, good health for them and their family, and are usually willing to work hard for it, possibly a lot harder than those who've taken those basic provisions for granted their whole life. The British population is overwhelmingly made up of people who can trace their ancestry back to immigrants, and often not that far back.

Like most groups of people, a small percentage will be nefarious and offend society, a small number will be workshy and greedy, but the vast majority will be happy to become part of their society and contribute to it both financially and socially, work hard and take part in everyday life like normal citizens.

It's very easy - but also very lazy - to pigeonhole others. As the son of an immigrant and grandson of another, I find much of what's been said here rather offensive and mildly risible.

Well as the basic thrust was if we increase the population we need to up house building and services even the slaver could understand it. Its not a moral judgement its just math. There are indications that electorates across Europe are turning to right wing parties because they feel their opinions are being ignored.

Stop moralising ignoring the facts (most European countries lock up more foreign nationals than locals etc.) and start thinking!

[DoctorStrangelove]

Just think how the Beaker Folk felt. .

[Snooky]

Much of the content of this thread seems like watching GBeebies on a bad day.

I don't disagree that we only have room for so many people in our country, and that we should control who we allow to enter and also provide enough services and facilities for everyone. However I very much dispute assertions or implications that immigration somehow leads to more trouble and is a drain on our society.

Immigrants are people. People generally want security, food, shelter, education, good health for them and their family, and are usually willing to work hard for it, possibly a lot harder than those who've taken those basic provisions for granted their whole life. The British population is overwhelmingly made up of people who can trace their ancestry back to immigrants, and often not that far back.

Like most groups of people, a small percentage will be nefarious and offend society, a small number will be workshy and greedy, but the vast majority will be happy to become part of their society and contribute to it both financially and socially, work hard and take part in everyday life like normal citizens.

It's very easy - but also very lazy - to pigeonhole others. As the son of an immigrant and grandson of another, I find much of what's been said here rather offensive and mildly risible.

[dsc]

London isn't excluded - or have you missed all those Brits in council/housing association accommodation living in crumbling and mouldy properties?

Yes indeed, I kind of wanted to excluded it as there's stuff being built there, but on the other hand it's all private investment, mostly blocks of fancy flats, so yes, it should be thrown in in the bag with all the other crumbling areas (especially the poorer areas of London).

[SueEllen]

Well then clearly the UK have been sold a big fat lie with Brexit if the big selling point of controlling migration and quadruple billions to the NHS are all but a bluff innit?

Also, blame current and past govs for building absolutely **** all and letting 90% of the UK crumble to tulip (London excluded, but still). Migration is just a fancy way of pushing over the blame to someone else.

London isn't excluded - or have you missed all those Brits in council/housing association accommodation living in crumbling and mouldy properties?

[dsc]

Unfortunately, Brexit has made that a lot harder. Countries like Spain and France only grant residency to well-off Brits now.

Sure, but there's loads of migrants who came to the UK that are moving out, either going back to other EU countries or their own EU / non-EU countries.

[woody1]

Also don't forget yearly there's a tulip ton of people migrating out of the UK, so showing numbers for one side doesn't cut it.

Unfortunately, Brexit has made that a lot harder. Countries like Spain and France only grant residency to well-off Brits now.

[dsc]

Taking back control of borders doesn't mean we don't let anyone in. It means we can control migration which we clearly still cannot do. Nothing wrong with tax paying workers coming over. It's the rest that are the problem and they don't pay a penny towards anything. So moaning about out of control migration is absolutely right.

Well then clearly the UK have been sold a big fat lie with Brexit if the big selling point of controlling migration and quadruple billions to the NHS are all but a bluff innit?

Also, blame current and past govs for building absolutely **** all and letting 90% of the UK crumble to tulip (London excluded, but still). Migration is just a fancy way of pushing over the blame to someone else.

As for higher rate tax being paid for basic jobs from our local anti-migration expert - I'll just leave that without a comment, cause that's clearly a solution Show me statistics on how many British born, 7th generation, "been here since the bloody Battle of Trafalgar" are sponging on the welfare system, then clash this against migrants and maybe we can have a discussion. Also don't forget yearly there's a tulip ton of people migrating out of the UK, so showing numbers for one side doesn't cut it.

[WTFH]

Nothing wrong with tax paying workers coming over. It's the rest that are the problem and they don't pay a penny towards anything.

What about the ones who want to work but aren’t allowed to by our government, because if they worked and paid their way then it would be more difficult to demonise them?

[northernladuk]

To those moaning about migrants, go ahead and tell me what your solution is to people coming over to work in the NHS / elderly care segments. You do realise they also pay taxes and so can use all the benefits that the system offers. Or was that not clear? take a look at who serves you when you go to McDonalds, your local pharmacy, restaurant, who delivers your parcels etc.

Taking back control of borders doesn't mean we don't let anyone in. It means we can control migration which we clearly still cannot do. Nothing wrong with tax paying workers coming over. It's the rest that are the problem and they don't pay a penny towards anything. So moaning about out of control migration is absolutely right.

[woody1]

So much for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_back_control

[vetran]

I know this is hard for a lot of people in the UK to believe (especially those starting with a "B" and ending with a "teer" ), but UK is no longer an expat destination for EU people, actually it stopped being it even before Brexit (it was the final nail in the coffin). Enjoy your "freedom" with a tulip ton of non-EU expats coming over on the new visa scheme

To those moaning about migrants, go ahead and tell me what your solution is to people coming over to work in the NHS / elderly care segments. You do realise they also pay taxes and so can use all the benefits that the system offers. Or was that not clear? take a look at who serves you when you go to McDonalds, your local pharmacy, restaurant, who delivers your parcels etc.

I know its hard for a lot of people to understand, like those with descriptions that sound like Fe**wits. 6.2 million people on the settlement scheme is a big deal when we have no houses or hospital beds. Millions more via poorly controlled immigration is not a good idea. Hundreds of millions of economic migrants are on the move towards the west and many mean us harm.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...tics-june-2023


If we want these extra people then we need to build services for them. That is not moaning though you the hard of thinking perceive it as such, its just common sense.

Emotional arguments that immigrants do the jobs we don't want to do so we can subsidise multinationals tax savings also look a bit stupid. The reality is that until people are on higher rate taxes they are a drain on societies coffers. Workers on £20k with 3 kids don't actually contribute to the NHS. Again I say, pay me £120k to clean tables and I'm there.

The reality is that right wing parties are on the rise, the people including 'recent' migrants are not happy! Deal with it or suffer from it.

As posted we need to consider whether we actually need migrants and if so we need to cost them and the services they need before accepting them.