Reply to: anyone here living / working in CH / Zurich?

[NotAllThere]

I'm in loose talks about a perm position there, would be moving a family of 4, it's a fairly niche skillset they need which I can help with, but I have absolutely no idea what salaries are there. Google says IT median is 120kCHF gross per year, but from my very limited research that would definitely not be enough to even survive with two kids and a jobless wife. They were nice enough to give me some time to research and come back to them with a suggested salary, but I'm getting a vibe that to have enough to not live on a tight budget, I'd have to throw a figure at which they will just laugh and tell me to bugger off.

Also, additional question for all the locals there, how do you find the work culture? heard various things, that it's like Germany and / or US, so long, hard hours, tulip work / life balance. True? Bollocks?

Please ignore the testicular nonsense above. I speak as someone who has lived and worked in Switzerland for over 20 years. I don't want to live anywhere else. I even acquired Swiss citizenship. I own a house. My eldest has just bought one. Renting in CH is far different from the UK. You have more rights for one thing, and if mortgage rates go down, you can insist on a rent reduction.

120K is a good salary. Of course you can live quite well on it. I lived for 3 years on 144K with a non-working wife and 3 kids. 90K is perfectly enough for a very nice life with a non-working spouse and 2 kids. I know people who do it!

The work culture depends on the company. If you're working for one that's run by US management, expect crap. But usually there's an emphasis on work-life balance.

Many companies will actively work to help your wife find work, if she wants to. My wife didn't, but once the kids were of an age, she gained a Swiss bookkeeping qualification... and promptly got a job as an English teacher.

If you want informed advice, you can pm me, or, better, post on englishforum.ch

... but you need to know the local language to work with locals, so that's a bit of a feckery. She used to speak fairly good German though, so it's not impossible, but a cleaning job is out of the question

Rubbish. We had two Ukrainian women living with us for five months a couple of years ago. They both got cleaning jobs with practically zero German.

But yeah, Zürich is rubbish. In environs of Basel are far nicer.

[dsc]

But if your kids are young it would be the perfect time. I suppose it depends on how much you like your life in the UK.

I wouldn't just go for a year. Also don't you have to be out of the country for 2 years to be a non resident?

Not everything is expensive in Switzerland. Electronics are cheaper, IKEA is the same price and you could get your food from Germany (though it is too much hassle for me).

Your wife could get a job, even if she has no skills she could be a cleaner for at least 30chf p/h.

Definitely leaving the UK (can always comeback, we all have dual nationality, but I doubt this will happen seeing where UK is headed), the question is where to go atm. Switzerland has it's positives and one can always live outside Zurich, but overall I'm not super keen as most people there rent for life as houses are silly expensive. I'd rather move to Scandi somewhere and be able to buy a decent house, than to keep renting in CH like we are now in the UK.

Wife is skilled, but you need to know the local language to work with locals, so that's a bit of a feckery. She used to speak fairly good German though, so it's not impossible, but a cleaning job is out of the question

[tazdevil]

Your wife could get a job, even if she has no skills she could be a cleaner.

Quick way to a divorce Back in the 1980's I went for a job in the States but didn't take it when the HR guy told my wife she was just an appendage and they wouldn't support her in getting a job or studying 40th anniversary this year so staying away from that one was the best decision I ever made

[reddog]

I actually agree talked to someone who was offered a head tech dept position a few years back and they got an offer of 200k, so I very much doubt a dev, even senior can be close to that. With 120k being the median (8k take home), 140k (9.5k take home) seems more reasonable, but even on that it would be tight with only one person working, bloody kindergarten seems to cost around 3k per child, which is almost as much as rent in Zurich (4k) ffs, then on top you have to pay medical insurance for everyone, which is around 1k for adults alone. Could move just for a year or so, but it's perm and not a contract, so with money being, well normal ie. not high enough to live comfortably with 2 kids, it would be more of a survival year than enjoyment.

Anyways, thanks for the input.

But if your kids are young it would be the perfect time. I suppose it depends on how much you like your life in the UK.

I wouldn't just go for a year. Also don't you have to be out of the country for 2 years to be a non resident?

Not everything is expensive in Switzerland. Electronics are cheaper, IKEA is the same price and you could get your food from Germany (though it is too much hassle for me).

Your wife could get a job, even if she has no skills she could be a cleaner for at least 30chf p/h.

[vetran]

I actually agree talked to someone who was offered a head tech dept position a few years back and they got an offer of 200k, so I very much doubt a dev, even senior can be close to that. With 120k being the median (8k take home), 140k (9.5k take home) seems more reasonable, but even on that it would be tight with only one person working, bloody kindergarten seems to cost around 3k per child, which is almost as much as rent in Zurich (4k) ffs, then on top you have to pay medical insurance for everyone, which is around 1k for adults alone. Could move just for a year or so, but it's perm and not a contract, so with money being, well normal ie. not high enough to live comfortably with 2 kids, it would be more of a survival year than enjoyment.

Anyways, thanks for the input.

see if you can bunk up with Sasgoo

He may have space in his stables.

[dsc]

It would be useful if you tell us your skillset.

I seriously doubt you would get 200kCHF whatever your skills are

Maybe go for 140kChf if you think you are in demand, but consider an important part of the package is pension contribution which are usually way more generous than the UK.

Whatever you earning you will have a massive lifestyle adjustment. Almost no one in Switzerland lives in a house and your kids will have to go to the local school and speak German/ Swiss German.

Depending on their age this could be a problem, in order to go to University your kids will have to go to a Gymnasium School (like a grammar school). If they arrive too late they have no chance of going to that school.

Having said all that I reckon your kids would have a better future in Switzerland than the UK, so it might be worth adjusting.

I actually agree talked to someone who was offered a head tech dept position a few years back and they got an offer of 200k, so I very much doubt a dev, even senior can be close to that. With 120k being the median (8k take home), 140k (9.5k take home) seems more reasonable, but even on that it would be tight with only one person working, bloody kindergarten seems to cost around 3k per child, which is almost as much as rent in Zurich (4k) ffs, then on top you have to pay medical insurance for everyone, which is around 1k for adults alone. Could move just for a year or so, but it's perm and not a contract, so with money being, well normal ie. not high enough to live comfortably with 2 kids, it would be more of a survival year than enjoyment.

Anyways, thanks for the input.

[vetran]

Having worked for a German Boss and with a number of German colleagues on German projects there is a more established hierarchy in German Engineering. Plenty of Herr Doctors in play.

Back stabbing seems to be more common over there. Saw it a few times in 2 years. Though to be fair I worked with 2 German engineers who had previously worked for him and they hated his guts. It may just be bad management.

Plenty of people worked extra hours but that was mainly project driven.

[dsc]

You mention hearing that Germany is long, hard hours and a terrible work/life balance. Can you tell me where you heard that from?
My experience of working with German employees is contrary to your claim.

Mate who worked in Germany, he said it's a lot of back stabbing and pushing hard for promotions, also the chain of command is very visible with people constantly updating their managers to look like they are doing more work than others. Might've been that particular company though of course and nothing to do with Germans in general.

[reddog]

It would be useful if you tell us your skillset.

I seriously doubt you would get 200kCHF whatever your skills are

Maybe go for 140kChf if you think you are in demand, but consider an important part of the package is pension contribution which are usually way more generous than the UK.

Whatever you earning you will have a massive lifestyle adjustment. Almost no one in Switzerland lives in a house and your kids will have to go to the local school and speak German/ Swiss German.

Depending on their age this could be a problem, in order to go to University your kids will have to go to a Gymnasium School (like a grammar school). If they arrive too late they have no chance of going to that school.

Having said all that I reckon your kids would have a better future in Switzerland than the UK, so it might be worth adjusting.

[WTFH]

Also, additional question for all the locals there, how do you find the work culture? heard various things, that it's like Germany and / or US, so long, hard hours, tulip work / life balance. True? Bollocks?

You mention hearing that Germany is long, hard hours and a terrible work/life balance. Can you tell me where you heard that from?
My experience of working with German employees is contrary to your claim.

[edison]

Last time I was out there (10 years ago) albeit with a crappy exchange rate it was very expensive. About a tenner for my usual starbucks morning order, which in the uk would have been about a fiver back then as I seem to remember!
The only thing I can remember being cheaper was my cigarettes!

I used to visit Basel regularly around the same time in 2013/14. It was wallet bustingly expensive then - I remember paying £11-13 for the equivalent of a £3 Tesco meal deal.

The pound is now 25% weaker versus the Swiss Franc which would at least be good if you were able to convert your money back to pounds if you come back to the UK at some point.

I know one or two Brits who have lived there long term more recently and the general cost of living is very high so do your research thoroughly before you commit.

My experience was that working with the Swiss is similar to the Germans - quite hierarchical, formal and conservative. I don't recall people working excessively long hours though. The Swiss like their work life balance, especially at the weekends.

[courtg9000]

Lat time I was out there (10 years ago) albeit with a crappy exchange rate it was very expensive. About a tenner for my usual starbucks morning order, which in the uk would have been about a fiver back then as I seem to remember!
The only thing I can remember being cheaper was my cigarettes!

[dsc]

I presume it's 120CHF per hour

Sorry, my bad, corrected, 120k CHF per year gross. Seems like 200k would be the minimum with two kids, although with a sit at home partner you can probably get by on less.

[Paddy]

I'm in loose talks about a perm position there, would be moving a family of 4, it's a fairly niche skillset they need which I can help with, but I have absolutely no idea what salaries are there. Google says IT median is 120CHF, but from my very limited research that would definitely not be enough to even survive with two kids and a jobless wife. They were nice enough to give me some time to research and come back to them with a suggested salary, but I'm getting a vibe that to have enough to not live on a tight budget, I'd have to throw a figure at which they will just laugh and tell me to bugger off.

Also, additional question for all the locals there, how do you find the work culture? heard various things, that it's like Germany and / or US, so long, hard hours, tulip work / life balance. True? Bollocks?

I presume it's 120CHF per hour

[northernladuk]

Expensive.

Hard to trust these sites with cost of living increases but should still be enough of a yardstick. Does say updated Jan 2024 but no idea what that actually means.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...atchComparison

You would need around 7,582.3£ (8,361.0Fr.) in Zurich to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,100.0£ in London (assuming you rent in both cities).

Consumer Prices in Zurich are 49.1% higher than in London (without rent)

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Zurich are 24.3% higher than in London

Rent Prices in Zurich are 7.1% lower than in London

Restaurant Prices in Zurich are 33.2% higher than in London

Groceries Prices in Zurich are 96.7% higher than in London

Local Purchasing Power in Zurich is 58.1% higher than in London

Gives you the general idea which I am sure other people will give you shortly. I'm sure NAT can validate how far off the figures are as well which will help.