Reply to: No Flights to Rwanda

[malvolio]

There's still a Tier 3 visa route in for unskilled workers such as seasonal agricultural people. There are few limits on coming here for work, where it gets tricky is when you want to bring your relations with you, which is reasonable if you consider these are for short term workers.

Or of course, when you turn up on a beach in Kent and demand somewhere to live...

[SueEllen]

Are these the type of skills we want?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tion-detention

A refugee who has just been called to the bar says she has the Home Office to thank for her career after she became an amateur legal expert while locked up in a detention centre.
Aderonke Apata, 55, from Nigeria, said she was proud to take part in a ceremony last week where she, along with dozens of other newly qualified barristers, were formally called to the bar.

Apata was almost forcibly removed from the UK on a Home Office charter flight to Nigeria in January 2013 after her asylum claim, based on the fact that as a lesbian who had been persecuted in Nigeria her life would be in danger if she was returned there, was rejected.

[vetran]

There is an immigration system available to all. You just have to be skilled at A level in a required occupation. Maybe these people aren't that skilled? Maybe many Employers aren't willing to pay them average wage?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-for-employers

The Skilled Worker route encompasses the majority of UK jobs eligible for overseas recruitment, providing a simple and flexible process for accessing the global talent pool.

Under the Skilled Worker route, anyone you want to hire from outside the UK will need to demonstrate that:

• they have a job offer from a Home Office licensed sponsor (you)
• the job offer is at the required skill level – RQF 3 or above (A Level and equivalent)
• they speak English to the required standard

In addition to this, the job you are offering must meet the applicable minimum salary threshold. This is the higher of either:

• the general salary threshold of £25,600, or
• the specific salary requirement for their occupation, known as the ‘going rate’

All applicants will be able to trade characteristics, such as their qualifications, against a lower salary to get the required number of points. If the job offer is less than the minimum salary requirement, but no less than £20,480, an applicant may still be eligible if they have:

• a job offer in a specific shortage occupation
• a PhD relevant to the job
• a PhD in a STEM subject relevant to the job

There are different salary rules for workers in certain health or education jobs, and for ’new entrants’ at the start of their careers.

For further information on the ‘going rate’ for specific occupations and further exemptions, see Skilled Worker visa: going rates for eligible occupation codes.

now as I keep saying automation is going to reduce need soon. The narrative about needing younger unskilled people makes little sense in light of this.

https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/econo...n-on-jobs.html

During the first wave, we expect relatively low displacement of existing jobs, perhaps only around 3% by the early 2020s. But job displacement could increase in later waves as these technologies mature and are rolled out across the economy in increasingly autonomous form.

By the mid-2030s, up to 30% of jobs could be automatable, with slightly more men being affected in the long run as autonomous vehicles and other machines replace many manual tasks where their share of employment is higher. During the first and second waves, however, women could be at greater risk of automation due to their higher representation in clerical and other administrative functions (see chart).

These estimates are median values across 29 countries, with the UK being very close to the average.

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-in...ills-and-wages

We previously found that about half the activities people are paid to do globally could theoretically be automated using currently demonstrated technologies. Very few occupations—less than 5 percent—consist of activities that can be fully automated.

However, in about 60 percent of occupations, at least one-third of the constituent activities could be automated, implying substantial workplace transformations and changes for all workers.

Obviously some of the worlds most respected consultancies don't hold a candle to a few people on a forum's bleeding stupid hearts.

Go into McDonalds / Burger King or KFC and take a look for yourself.

[SueEllen]

Sadly if we want to stop them dying on the crossing we need to discourage that route of entry.

If we allow them to work then that doesn't exactly discourage them.

Most will be working illegally anyway if government stats have any truth in them.

This why the Foreign Office needs to keep funding the BBC World Service. They also need to fund a radio soap opera for the countries those in the boats/back of lorries come from with stories to dissuade them.

The thing to remember these aren't actually asylum seekers thye are economic migrants. If we want to encourage migration lets go for skilled migration that way when automation makes everybody's lunch we will have a few people that are clever something we are clearly missing among some posters.

Big problem there is no legal way to migrate to the UK unless you have close family here - and even that's difficult - or are in a job. There are reports of how some of the job offers are slave labour, and due to who I worked for before I became a contractor I know those are true.

My beloved "if Maggie were still alive party" isn't up to much because the protagonist is dead. The tories are actually making Liebour look attractive.


The facts however are we have more arriving than homes for them to live in. How is that going to end do you think?

Who knows?

The NIMBYs where I live only care if developers are not building the right type of homes. They have also complained that an industrial site that isn't at full capacity hasn't been built on.

[northernladuk]

There is plenty of lower level work in the UK, but very few people willing to do it. Most of the immigrants yes are probably economic ... seems a pretty simple solution there .. let them work and add to the economy. But then we had that with the Eastern Europeans who came here and the Wail readers were up in arms that they were taking jobs that UK born people wouldn't do anyway.

I don't know the figures for that but if they are economic and can do the work then fine. We've been doing that ever since we got in to Europe and probably before. We do have, albeit a poor one, a system for dealing with economic migration of workers. It's the uncontrolled element that is the problem. Most of the people coming across on the boats will only be applicable for the very lowest level of jobs. They aren't coming here to work, they are coming for the benefits. A sweeping statement but on the whole this group isn't going to add to the economy.

We have a chance here to help the UK economy and make the world a slightly better place for a number of people, and yet we choose not to. Very sad.

Creating an underbelly of very poorly paid and exploited workers that are not earning enough to contribute or sustain themselves isn't making the world a better place. A percentage are without a doubt, but a good percentage of them can't. We need to be clear about the type of immigration we are looking at when chosing how to deal with the problem. There are those that come to work and have either the skills and ability to do that but there is a large number that aren't don't and can't.

[vetran]

Scotland needs more people.

yeah because they have all moved down here!

[vetran]

So what are you and your glorious party doing about it, apart from high profile totally ineffectual PR stunts like the flights to Rwanda that doesn't solve a problem but looks good to the Wail readers and the Tories can claim they are trying something even if they know it's like p-ing in the wind.

There is plenty of lower level work in the UK, but very few people willing to do it. Most of the immigrants yes are probably economic ... seems a pretty simple solution there .. let them work and add to the economy. But then we had that with the Eastern Europeans who came here and the Wail readers were up in arms that they were taking jobs that UK born people wouldn't do anyway.

We have a chance here to help the UK economy and make the world a slightly better place for a number of people, and yet we choose not to. Very sad.

Sadly if we want to stop them dying on the crossing we need to discourage that route of entry.

If we allow them to work then that doesn't exactly discourage them.

Most will be working illegally anyway if government stats have any truth in them.

The thing to remember these aren't actually asylum seekers thye are economic migrants. If we want to encourage migration lets go for skilled migration that way when automation makes everybody's lunch we will have a few people that are clever something we are clearly missing among some posters.

My beloved "if Maggie were still alive party" isn't up to much because the protagonist is dead. The tories are actually making Liebour look attractive.


The facts however are we have more arriving than homes for them to live in. How is that going to end do you think?

[SueEllen]

typical god botherer sh1te

Scotland needs more people.

[sadkingbilly]

Send them to Scotland instead of Rwanda.

typical god botherer sh1te

[d000hg]

Send them to Scotland instead of Rwanda.

[Whorty]

200,000 a year net since 2011

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...d-from-the-uk/

House building is about 40,000 a year so its 5 per property with a normal occupation of 2.2. so we have half the number of properties we need, look at mout councils and they are short of school places.

Sadly immigrants seem to be over represented in crime statisitics both causing and suffering.

Yeah its going great.

So what are you and your glorious party doing about it, apart from high profile totally ineffectual PR stunts like the flights to Rwanda that doesn't solve a problem but looks good to the Wail readers and the Tories can claim they are trying something even if they know it's like p-ing in the wind.

There is plenty of lower level work in the UK, but very few people willing to do it. Most of the immigrants yes are probably economic ... seems a pretty simple solution there .. let them work and add to the economy. But then we had that with the Eastern Europeans who came here and the Wail readers were up in arms that they were taking jobs that UK born people wouldn't do anyway.

We have a chance here to help the UK economy and make the world a slightly better place for a number of people, and yet we choose not to. Very sad.

[vetran]

200,000 a year net since 2011

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...d-from-the-uk/

House building is about 40,000 a year so its 5 per property with a normal occupation of 2.2. so we have half the number of properties we need, look at mout councils and they are short of school places.

Sadly immigrants seem to be over represented in crime statisitics both causing and suffering.

Yeah its going great.

[BlasterBates]

You sure of that? Ours look pretty good from the outside as a casual glance.

I would suggest you read the international press

[northernladuk]

Over the last 25-30 years Germany has been accepting between 0.5 million and 1 million refugees every year. It's still a lot wealthier than the UK, and the public services are in far better shape.

You sure of that? Ours look pretty good from the outside as a casual glance. A recent poll showed 1 in 2 people in Germany are against current immigration levels and that's going to get worse. Germany is 1.5 times the size of the UK and the habital area is a much higher percentage. The rise of the far right groups across Europe also shows a growning trend of unhappiness. I'm sure they may appear to be the most welcoming country at the moment and their infrastructure can handle it all that is for now. It can only get worse as time go on and more come, which they will if we keep on with the open arms liberal rhetoric.

I find it amusing that people in the UK get hung up about a few hundred migrants. I blame the Daily Mail

And how is that supposed to be a measure argument that can be taken seriously? You quote a year on year figure on one hand and then a flippent meaningless number of the hunder. That's a few hundred... per day... just crossing the channel. No other entry methods considered and that number has tripled in 4 years.

To think we don't have a huge problem, even if it isn't right now, is just utter madness.

[malvolio]

Over the last 25-30 years Germany has been accepting between 0.5 million and 1 million refugees every year. It's still a lot wealthier than the UK, and the public services are in far better shape.

I find it amusing that people in the UK get hung up about a few hundred migrants. I blame the Daily Mail

I find it amusing that you have no idea. To date we have rescued and allowed in the equivalent of the population of a medium sized city, not counting all the legal and genuine incomers (and yes, there are quite a lot of them as well). Why should you and me pay for them when they have no right or reason to be here in the first place?