Reply to: You might have missed this…

[SueEllen]

Maybe Labour wanted to let the matter proceed further, to give the Tories more rope to hang themselves!

They seem to be doing that with every issue which is the problem....

[mattster]

Maybe Labour wanted to let the matter proceed further, to give the Tories more rope to hang themselves!

I think the way it panned out is actually a better result for Labour - it makes the government look even more incompetent and capricious than usual. Whether Labour had any sort of plan to help it along is another question (doubtful). A decent opposition should be steamrollering this government by 20 points in the polls now, IMO.

[OwlHoot]

I read somewhere that this need not have happened at all if Labour had got their act together and voted down the earlier proposal. With the Tory abstentions and the ones ignoring the Whips, they could easily have done so. If true, it does highlight how useless our opposition really is if they miss a chance to defeat the sitting government.

Maybe Labour wanted to let the matter proceed further, to give the Tories more rope to hang themselves!

[Whorty]

Probably one of my more stupid questions but.. not being at all political... surely the Gov doing U turns every so often is a good thing? It would be worse to continue down a path that has become untenable than doing a U turn no? I mean, if there was uproar every time a U turn was made in a project we'd not deliver anything cause we would be too busy complaining?

I've always thought the same ... I'd rather have a gov't that can hold their hands up and admit they were wrong, and correct their course of action, than go blindly on as U-turns are seen as failure.

I think the problem here though is they are not doing a U-turn because they think it's the right thing to do. They are doing it due to the bad press and the risk to votes. If they could have forced it in due to more voting MPs and their loving red top press chums, I don't think they would have changed tack.

[WTFH]

Changing your mind on the basis of new information is healthy, but that has not happened in this case. Patterson was as corrupt yesterday as he is today, and they all knew it. They thought they could get away with it (and thus - the real motivation - protect Bojo and various other cronies from upcoming PPE contract investigations), but they were surprised by the extent of hostile reaction - especially in the Tory press. So today they all think differently than they did yesterday, but we all know what they really think.

And Patterson is now playing the victim card....
'I'm having to quit the cruel world of politics, because I made it a cruel world by breaking the rules and taking cash for questions, it's everyone else's fault that I am having to do this. You voting public need to go and have a hard look t yourselves as to why you have forced an honourable man like me to quit the job I did so well. Now you need to support people like me and continue to support The Party.'

[mattster]

Probably one of my more stupid questions but.. not being at all political... surely the Gov doing U turns every so often is a good thing? It would be worse to continue down a path that has become untenable than doing a U turn no? I mean, if there was uproar every time a U turn was made in a project we'd not deliver anything cause we would be too busy complaining?

Changing your mind on the basis of new information is healthy, but that has not happened in this case. Patterson was as corrupt yesterday as he is today, and they all knew it. They thought they could get away with it (and thus - the real motivation - protect Bojo and various other cronies from upcoming PPE contract investigations), but they were surprised by the extent of hostile reaction - especially in the Tory press. So today they all think differently than they did yesterday, but we all know what they really think.

[SueEllen]

He can get a job at the UN now.

Especially as he was a Secretary of State for Northern Ireland...

[xoggoth]

Probably one of my more stupid questions but.. not being at all political... surely the Gov doing U turns every so often is a good thing? It would be worse to continue down a path that has become untenable than doing a U turn no? I mean, if there was uproar every time a U turn was made in a project we'd not deliver anything cause we would be too busy complaining?

Totally agree. Nothing is absolutely certain. Changing course when things are not going as anticipated is common sense.

[d000hg]

He can get a job at the UN now.

[SueEllen]

And he's gone...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-watchdog-row

Owen Paterson has decided to resign as the MP for North Shropshire, saying: “I will remain a public servant but outside the cruel world of politics.”

Paterson was facing a 30-day suspension from the House of Commons and a potential byelection, after Boris Johnson withdrew his support from a bid to protect him.



Downing Street executed a humiliating U-turn on Thursday, just hours after Johnson whipped his MPs to support an amendment that paused judgment in the Paterson case while the system for policing MPs’ behaviour was overhauled.

[d000hg]

In this case it's a completely unforced error and the issue is that this Government seems to be making a lot of them.

When you have such a weak opposition the government can get sloppy and not get hurt much. A bit like sport - when two teams are both close they are very focused on not screwing up.

[eek]

Probably one of my more stupid questions but.. not being at all political... surely the Gov doing U turns every so often is a good thing? It would be worse to continue down a path that has become untenable than doing a U turn no? I mean, if there was uproar every time a U turn was made in a project we'd not deliver anything cause we would be too busy complaining?

Depends on the scale of the U-turn.

In this case it's probably cost Owen Paterson his seat - previously it would have been a low profile issue making a recall hard to organise and win.

After yesterday - as soon as it's triggered I suspect they would have the necessary numbers in a week.

In this case it's a completely unforced error and the issue is that this Government seems to be making a lot of them.

[northernladuk]

Probably one of my more stupid questions but.. not being at all political... surely the Gov doing U turns every so often is a good thing? It would be worse to continue down a path that has become untenable than doing a U turn no? I mean, if there was uproar every time a U turn was made in a project we'd not deliver anything cause we would be too busy complaining?

[eek]

From memory (as I can't find the tweet) 60 Tory MPs had permission to miss yesterdays vote.

All the other Tory MPs who abstained, intentionally abstained rather than following the whipped vote to vote Aye.

[malvolio]

You read wrongly.

The Labour abstentions are from pairing and unlike the Tories they don't go back on their word.

Didn't think you paired for abstentions and non-voting, only absences.

AS for Labour not going back on their word, where can we start...