Reply to: Nurses are well paid for the job...

[Whorty]

That is a pot of about £580,000. For that you save £500 a month for your working life. So to match it you need £500 more of raw pay.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...etirement.html

A fund of a million will get you £50,000.

Erm, not to be picky, but your link is to an article from 2008 so waaaay out of date.

A £29k pension in today's money and shyte annuity rates needs a pot of over £750k. Add to that any tax free drawdown and you're closer to a pot of a £1m

[vetran]

Thats what I thought about the pay but I always though that the pensions were the gold - Receiving 29K from a 58K salary at 67 years old for a man I do wonder how valuable the pension actually is - It certainly does not sound much and if someone worked 40 years to qualify for this 40/80 calc I would want to understand the present value of that 29K yearly pension -

That is a pot of about £580,000. For that you save £500 a month for your working life. So to match it you need £500 more of raw pay.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...etirement.html

A fund of a million will get you £50,000.

[NowPermOutsideUK]

Mrs is a nurse. NHS is the worst employer in the UK. Pay is sh*te. Shes been nursing 20 years, she was out in the community making medical decisions on her own, £15 an hour.......

And don't get me started about the management culture. Managers dont think employment laws apply to them and bullying is rife....

I'm glad to say she left the NHS last week - had enough after 6 months in a new job. Working for a private company now providing home feeding to patients under contract to the NHS. Before in the NHS, out in the community she was expected to see 15-18 patients in a normal shift, she now sees 5.

Thats what I thought about the pay but I always though that the pensions were the gold - Receiving 29K from a 58K salary at 67 years old for a man I do wonder how valuable the pension actually is - It certainly does not sound much and if someone worked 40 years to qualify for this 40/80 calc I would want to understand the present value of that 29K yearly pension -

[vetran]

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

This, incompetent management, is the single point of failure in the NHS.
Politicians just amplify this!

That has been my experience frequently.

[vetran]

A cross post from the Boris "Perfidious" Johnson "may have spoken in error" thread.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/res...cost-of-living

yep they are about 10.2% down compared to the Private sector, they weren't well paid in the first place.

[courtg9000]

In parallel with that management line - and here is the real problem with NHS funding - is the Trust's management team, who were responsible for cocking up, sorry, managing procurement, facilities, staffing and the rest, using the usual big business metrics and performance indicators across all teams...

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

This, incompetent management, is the single point of failure in the NHS.
Politicians just amplify this!

[malvolio]

I think therein lies the rub, £58k a few years ago would have put her at Band 8c, so a Head of Department for an admin role and Consultant for a clinical one (one of the not patient-facing roles you mention), as long as Agenda For Change is the only pay scale there will be no way to give the nurses a pay rise without also giving the non-clinical staff the same one

Just to be picky, the lab staff are not patient facing but they are definitely clinical, and highly qualified for the role. She ran microbiology, above her was the head of pathology (also with mycology and virology and a couple of other specialists), and above her was a full blooded medical consultant.

In parallel with that management line - and here is the real problem with NHS funding - is the Trust's management team, who were responsible for cocking up, sorry, managing procurement, facilities, staffing and the rest, using the usual big business metrics and performance indicators across all teams...

[psychocandy]

Mrs is a nurse. NHS is the worst employer in the UK. Pay is sh*te. Shes been nursing 20 years, she was out in the community making medical decisions on her own, £15 an hour.......

And don't get me started about the management culture. Managers dont think employment laws apply to them and bullying is rife....

I'm glad to say she left the NHS last week - had enough after 6 months in a new job. Working for a private company now providing home feeding to patients under contract to the NHS. Before in the NHS, out in the community she was expected to see 15-18 patients in a normal shift, she now sees 5.

[SimonMac]

Yeah, like Mrs Malvolia, who for many years was running a £50m-ish department of around 100 lab staff covering 24x7 support to a major hospital, with a finishing salary of a majestic £58k a year without access to the shift allowances, on call and overtime that are the only way to get to quite serious money.

The sad thing is that money is there in the NHS - which spends half its income on wages - except that there quite a lot of higher paid people in non-productive (and certainly not patient-facing) roles.

I think therein lies the rub, £58k a few years ago would have put her at Band 8c, so a Head of Department for an admin role and Consultant for a clinical one (one of the not patient-facing roles you mention), as long as Agenda For Change is the only pay scale there will be no way to give the nurses a pay rise without also giving the non-clinical staff the same one

[SueEllen]

Quoting Mrs CFL

"The amount nurses are paid has a direct impact of the quality of care the patient receives." - The patient could be your child - think about that.

She should know.

Do not underestimate the MASS exodus that is happening with both non UK and non UK nurses. Any non UK speaking nurse that works in the UK has passed the OET (run by the Australians) and has better work opportunities elsewhere. There is a lot of demand for experienced nurses (Guess what? UK nurses can work overseas as well) and many who are not planning moving are retiring due to the way they have been treated during COVID. You are going to end up with a bunch of well intentioned junior nurses with noone to give them the on the job training.


Clap when you are in a Cardiac Ward.

Ahh but they have gold plated pensions....

Doesn't help if you can't buy a house near where you work so you have a nearly 2 hour commute one way and/or struggle to see your kids.....

[clearedforlanding]

Quoting Mrs CFL

"The amount nurses are paid has a direct impact of the quality of care the patient receives." - The patient could be your child - think about that.

She should know.

Do not underestimate the MASS exodus that is happening with both non UK and non UK nurses. Any non UK speaking nurse that works in the UK has passed the OET (run by the Australians) and has better work opportunities elsewhere. There is a lot of demand for experienced nurses (Guess what? UK nurses can work overseas as well) and many who are not planning moving are retiring due to the way they have been treated during COVID. You are going to end up with a bunch of well intentioned junior nurses with noone to give them the on the job training.


Clap when you are in a Cardiac Ward.

[SueEllen]

Work for HMRC instead:

https://www.fda.org.uk/home/Newsandm...C-members.aspx

Least they have flexible working....

[xoggoth]

Work for HMRC instead:

https://www.fda.org.uk/home/Newsandm...C-members.aspx

[courtg9000]

So does that suggest the NHS is

A. A poor employer for women overall?
B. Inflexible for mothers ? - I have heard this.
C. Offering Bank nurses more flexible options to fit in round childcare and pay more?
D. something else?

A and not just for women. The NHS has a lot of faults including a huge bullying culture.
B Yes it is inflexible not just for mothers. See above.
C But a lot of bank shifts are taken up by nurses on their days off on the wards they usually work on as they are either a) paying off massive debt, usually huge credit card debt or b) and less likely saving up for something.
D The NHS is badly gender imbalanced. It also has a large number of other issues that need fixing. Poor management is a big part of this.

[vetran]

The NHS has little choice in this due to its gender imbalance.

The NHS is 75% female and loses 10% of its age 18-45 female population every year for a minimum of 12 months. It only gets 20% of that staff within 3 months of when they are due back and 40% never return to work in the NHS! Of those that do return within 3 months of being due back they will lose a third in the following 24 months on average!

So does that suggest the NHS is

A. A poor employer for women overall?
B. Inflexible for mothers ? - I have heard this.
C. Offering Bank nurses more flexible options to fit in round childcare and pay more?
D. something else?