Reply to: I.t. Work from home positions

[MonkeysUncle]

I am quite lucky with my current role. Its not so much hybrid but they have connection days and office days. Connection days happen once every quarter. If you live within 1 hour travel to an office you are expected to come in, but its not for work, its more a meetup.
The last one was in Feb, as it was health heart month (or something like that) they had a company come in offering 10min health checks (BP, Blood sugar etc). They do quizzes/games and put on a nice lunch.
The aim is to meet your coworkers and build a relationship. As much as WFH is great, you lose that ability to build a rapport and that can be crucial when working on projects/ in cross functional teams. You are more likely to get someone to do somethign if they know who are, rather than just a faceless someone at the end of a phone/email.
Alongside this they do the first wednesday of the month is an office day if a team wants to block book desks and meeting rooms to get together.

[willendure]

Productivity can be highly dependant on office or home environment. For example, noisy open plan office, or constant domestic interruptions at home can both be a block to getting stuff done.

For me the ideal is a bit of office time for collaboration, then working in my private office for getting stuff done time. But of course, productivity can be highly personal too.

[Sub]

I've been working from home routinely since 2010 in what currently called "hybrid" mode. At that time none of the positions assumed WFH or even Hybrid, it all been in theory office-based full time and any flexibility was only granted either due to nature of the work (extensive travel for example) or as a result of sense of trust by the client.

There always been unwritten rules on how you behave during WFH: always available during core hours, never skipping meeting without notice and deliver on promises, keep your calendar open and up to date and so on. Writing weekly progress reports to manager / client poc weren't unheard of.

And this was pretty much same up until pandemic, shifting very slowly toward more remote working as hell broke loose and everyone stayed home, without smallest idea what does WFH imply. Many have taken it as extra holiday. Some adopted mouse jerking software and devices.

It certainly caused some companies to re-think their engagement and some consciously stayed in WFH mode after pandemic. However, in reality not anyone can and should work from home even if 100% of tasks can be carried remotely, simply because they unable to organise themselves. Client just recently let dev go because they weren't able to deliver anything and been blaming tech issues and apparently used mouse jerking technique.

My personal view is that it is a positive shift towards more balanced office/wfh approach and I hope it will continue.

[SussexSeagull]

Always the same problem when discussing clients WFH policies. People always look at themselves and post how they work better at home. They forget to consider the whole client employee base. All the drone jobs, the jobs that particularly need face to face, the people that get up to do the bare minimum, the people that haven't got a work ethic yet. They will make up half if not a lot more of the employees whos productivity drops through the floor at home. The client has to make a call across the board and these people have to be in the office.

A good example is my client sent a mail round a few months ago warning against autoclick type apps on Laptops to keep Teams alive. I couldn't get a figure from the teams I work with but apparently it was significant and a real problem. There is a program started to monitor, report and deal with started. I'm a bit surprised it's taken this long tbf. If everyone's productivity is fine then there would be no need for all this.

I don't have kids but have nieces and nephews and looking at them and their peers some of them are really hard working (my niece is just starting her own business) and some are really quite lazy. Which is much the same as my generation and probably every other one. I take the point that a couple of years in lockdown at the wrong time of a child or young adults development has had effects that we won't fully comprehend for years. For one thing anti-social behaviour spiked after lockdown.

When I started out some 357 years ago I probably did more hours than I have ever done since. Granted overtime was available but even then not everyone did it. I suspect if you could measure these things I wouldn't have been at my most productive though. As I got better at what I do and moved up the ladder I moved towards less hours but being more productive, more tactical and, at times, strategic. I have always thought this the natural cycle of things.

The irony of WFH is with monitoring tools it can be the most controlled environment to work in. Plus you can sit staring at your screen for three hours and the minute you go into the kitchen for a coffee someone will ring you and you miss it.

[northernladuk]

I don't understand why everyone expects workers in the office to be more productive. I certainly don't see any evidence of this. Consider my current hybrid life...

1. WFH
Get up at usual time due to body clock. Shower + coffee. Login to work 2 hours earlier then office due to not having much to do. Comfortable and stress free I make short work of emails, etc and get into the zone. All before I would normally arrive in the office. If hungry, go to kitchen and make a quick snack, ditto for lunch. I can work later if I need to finish stuff as I don't have to bother about my commute home. If there is down time I can do something productive around the house saving me time on the weekend.

2. Office
Get up at usual time, shower and dress. Commute - get to office two hours later assuming trains, etc working ok. Not going to start work without a coffee! Have to go to cafe, probably with several like minded colleagues. Start work significantly later than wfh. Hungry - go find some food - time wasted. Lunch - spend an hour getting food and eating. Try to leave early so as not to get stuck on commute and get home late at night. Any down time and surf the web like a muppet.

How is 2. more productive? For anyone? i'm not particularly disciplined. My work ethic is meh. But I still get a lot more done wfh than going into the office. Plus i suffer a lot less stress when i don't have a commute.

Always the same problem when discussing clients WFH policies. People always look at themselves and post how they work better at home. They forget to consider the whole client employee base. All the drone jobs, the jobs that particularly need face to face, the people that get up to do the bare minimum, the people that haven't got a work ethic yet. They will make up half if not a lot more of the employees whos productivity drops through the floor at home. The client has to make a call across the board and these people have to be in the office.

A good example is my client sent a mail round a few months ago warning against autoclick type apps on Laptops to keep Teams alive. I couldn't get a figure from the teams I work with but apparently it was significant and a real problem. There is a program started to monitor, report and deal with started. I'm a bit surprised it's taken this long tbf. If everyone's productivity is fine then there would be no need for all this.

[ladymuck]

One of the pros about working at an airport is that nearly all the office chat is about travel Often people will come in and start discussing aspects of their departure or arrival process, and that's all relevant to the projects being worked on. Everyone compares their experience with wherever they've just visited, which adds extra insight.

[Cookielove]

Pros and cons ...I am doing hybrid and mixed feelings as I posted earlier...

I actually injured my back and I am wfh so it is okay....if I'd had to do my schlep to the office and standing on trains etc I likely would have been off and not worked...whereas sat at home and taking painkillers it is doable...

I'd never return 5 days it is too time consuming plus in my place lot of inane chatter about after school classes and gcse's and all manner of stuff that no one really wants to hear about...

[fiisch]

In my industry (all London-based), stock line now seems to be 3 days a week in the office, but some clients seem to encourage more actively than others. I have found in my last 3 gigs that I have been able to gradually get this down to 1 or 2 days per week which for me (with a lengthy commute into the City, sometimes meaning overnight stays) is the sweet spot.

If we're all brutally honest, the time 9-5pm is more productive in an office from the point of view of collaboration, less home distractions and an inability for people to disappear for a couple of hours mid afternoon for a yoga class.

However, some types of work are much easier from home, if you have the right mindset, but that is a colossal IF and invariably most/all jobs need some form of collaboration, which works better face to face than remote.

It pains me to say it as I love the WFH benefits, but could never go back to a 5 day working week in the office now. That said, equally I think working exclusively from home would drive me a bit stir-crazy (even if I do enjoy the extra commuting time back!) and have found being in the office a couple of days a week is better for my wellbeing and leaves me feeling more connected/less isolated from the project.

[SussexSeagull]

For what it's worth I have worked with some very good Indian and Eastern European IT professionals. The problem is with the Indian based consultancies at time, but then again a lot of the same charges could be levelled at UK based ones as well.

I once worked with a Ukrainian guy who missed a morning meeting as the village next door had been missled by the Russians and he needed a moment. We allowed him that one.

[fatJock]

Interesting thread. In my current role the office is about 80 miles away so it has to be beneficial for me to go there and with there not being enough desks for everyone there's no chance I'm driving down only to sit on a Teams call with folks who could walk ten minutes to work but didn't. Meeting rooms are like gold dust too. One bloke on a project I am running hasn't ever been to the office in two years and the whole WFH thing has definitely opened up more talent as it's no longer just a commuting catchment.

On another job I had to commute to Crawley now and again from Northants - customer lead always arranged calls with a 9am start so I had to leave early doors. He lived ten minutes away and was late for his meeting nine times out of ten so sometimes face to face is frustrating and unnecessary. I think COVID just hammered that point home. I think I've been in the office twice since Christmas.

I get far more done from home and don't need to hear the sorties of folks pets being sick or Geoff's latest PB on his bike ride. I'm utterly uninterested in that sort of stuff - part of the reason I became a contractor.

[sadkingbilly]

WFH trend is lessening, but it is here to say I think. It has also greatly opened up the opportunity for cheaper remote workers in eastern Europe or the sub-continent of battulip-jibbering-scraping-the-barrel-OMG-my-internet-is-down-because-of-the-floods-and-typhoon-IT-workers (you know who I mean!). Which is bad news for us highly skilled and well paid contractors.

sorry, can you be more specific?
really?

[SussexSeagull]

Business as a whole is still trying to work this all out. Immediately post COVID you really struggled to find a contract that required you to attend an office (between lockdown starting and April 2023 I spent the grand total of two days physically in an office). The one I started after that got me onboard board knowing I was 3 and a half hours a way by train and wanted me in one day a week then complained when I wasn't in at 0900 that day or left a bit early as I had a commitment at home. I certainly wasn't the only one who had a multi hour journey.

They ended up moving towards FTC staff who were expected in the office twice a week and were presumably more local (it was a project with multiple problems that had struggled long before I arrived and last I checked was still rumbling on 18 months after I left).

It's a balance between wanting to draw between a larger talent pool and having your staff local.

[willendure]

I've never minded going to the office or WFH. I may grumble about going to the office but if I make sure I have people there to meet or work alongside rather than just sitting in a corner on zoom calls, then I'm much happier.

Nothing worse than going in to the office to attend a meeting only to find that everyone else is zooming in. I remember a recent contract at a bank, starting a new piece of work, the pm went around everyone and carefully arranged everyone to be in for the kick-off meeting. On the day one tosser last minute decided to WFH and we all had to strain to hear him over zoom and ruined the whole thing.

I miss a bit of office banter and going out for drinks and so on.

I think what is hard about the WFH thing is that it means jobs that would go to people in your local area are now being taken by people far away, completely ruining any interpersonal aspects of the work. On a zoom call there is no time for banter, catching up on the weekends events, deciding to go out for lunch together etc, its all just down to business mostly. At least if a job requires X days a week in the office, that restricts it back to the local area again.

WFH trend is lessening, but it is here to say I think. It has also greatly opened up the opportunity for cheaper remote workers in eastern Europe or the sub-continent of battulip-jibbering-scraping-the-barrel-OMG-my-internet-is-down-because-of-the-floods-and-typhoon-IT-workers (you know who I mean!). Which is bad news for us highly skilled and well paid contractors.

[teknokrat]

Let me also add; my office is an international corporate that hot desks. So sitting amongst your team is usually unlikely and all meetings are going to be over zoom anyway. I find specialized team chats to be much more effective at sharing information too. It's much better when you have a chance to think before replying, and maybe even run some tests. You also have a history which is invaluable if an issue pops up again. People say you can communicate more effectively face to face but they certainly were not talking about a typical corporate office environment. I find most face to face meetings to be useless and boring, usually taken over by extroverts who want to talk about anything but the problem at hand. Hands up if you've been to meetings that took longer than it would take you to fix the problem!

I should also add that the savings in time and money are not trivial either. My commute costs me £16-18 + 3hrs daily (London). Even if I bring my own lunch that's extra preparation time that I have to waste on the job. Anyway, what do you do if the rest of your team wants to go for a coffee? You go along too. The money adds up.

[hobnob]

I don't understand why everyone expects workers in the office to be more productive. I certainly don't see any evidence of this. Consider my current hybrid life...

To be fair, some of it will depend on the role. There are some jobs which require you to be physically present, e.g. installing network equipment where you need to plug in a cable for the initial configuration and then carry it to where it's going.

In other roles, you can be more productive working from home. E.g. I was migrating VMs between platforms a while back, and that was a case of "start the transfer, leave it for a few hours, then start the next batch once it's finished". So, I had the flexibility of doing household tasks during the day (while a batch was running); in return, I'd keep them going late into the evening.

Also, some of it will depend on the person. E.g. I've spoken to youngsters (in their 20s) who've said that they can literally spend hours scrolling through TikTok. If they're in the office, they wouldn't do that at a desk (in full view of everyone else) but if they're at home they might be tempted to pull out their phone for a "quick" look, without realising how much time has gone by.

You mentioned lunch - if I'm in the office, I normally take something with me (e.g. a pre-made sandwich from the supermarket) or I might buy something from the staff canteen, but I don't leave the building (mainly because there aren't any shops in convenient walking distance). So, I normally take 30 mins whether I'm at home or in the office, and there's no advantage/disadvantage to either.

There are advantages to being in the office with other people, e.g. if you want to grab someone for a quick chat, but that relies on the team sitting together. If you're all hot-desking in different parts of the building, you might as well be at home.

I've found it useful to pick up things from conversations that people wouldn't necessarily put into an email or Teams chat. In my case, that might mean that I can offer advice based on past experience, even if it's not part of my current role. (Just to state the obvious, that's safer for an inside IR35 contract rather than an outside contract.) For a junior member of staff, I think it can be beneficial to overhear what's going on. E.g. if there's a particular task/problem that you haven't come across before, you could see how your colleagues do it. However, I've seen some people who sit with their headphones in all day. It's often not worth the effort of getting their attention, which can mean that they miss out on those opportunities to pick up new skills.