Reply to: Any tips & tricks on how to overlap a new contract on a lengthy notice period?

[sreed]

Imho unless you are in some niche market and / or getting regular emails / messages about relevant contracts, you'd be mad to be leaving a perm position now. There seems to be close to no contracts out there atm and perm positions are regularly getting 100+ applications within the first few hours, there also seems to be loads of dead job ads which are simply not going anywhere and are getting recycled constantly. The whole market seems to be moving to laying people off or hiring freezes, rather than creating new opportunities, so even if you land something, don't be surprised that the budget will be pulled and you'll be benched anyway.

I think that’s a bit too black and white. What you’ve said might be true for some sectors/roles, and generally speaking the current situation might be worse than what it was in the past few years, but there are decently paid contracts out there. At the risk of sounding immodest, even as a generalist PM I am reasonably confident that I will be able to find a contract that pays decently if I were to lose the current one. Worst case, an FTC.

There will always be a need for flexible expertise, people who can come in, do a job and leave. The volume of such people needed will ebb and flow with the general business environment.

[rocktronAMP]

Imho unless you are in some niche market and / or getting regular emails / messages about relevant contracts, you'd be mad to be leaving a perm position now. There seems to be close to no contracts out there atm and perm positions are regularly getting 100+ applications within the first few hours, there also seems to be loads of dead job ads which are simply not going anywhere and are getting recycled constantly. The whole market seems to be moving to laying people off or hiring freezes, rather than creating new opportunities, so even if you land something, don't be surprised that the budget will be pulled and you'll be benched anyway.

Hold on to what you got. Contracting is very hard at the moment.

There might be employers out there who do have some extra dough to pinch another permanent manager, consultant or information scientist from another consultancy. Those with power are looking exactly for people with a very good track record. I saw one DevRel person managing to jump from ship to ship, usually those are not advertised positions. Those sort of opportunities are through networking, "i have seen this lady present well and I think she will great be client-facing to our new emerging leads"

[dsc]

I think this is very good advice. We are clearly heading towards some very tough times, we are already in tough times and its going to get much worse. If you are in a role that is secure, I think its time to work hard and keep the money coming in. A lot of people are going to wish they had done so.

Imagine if you leave for a 6 month contract and then get nothing after that.

Imho unless you are in some niche market and / or getting regular emails / messages about relevant contracts, you'd be mad to be leaving a perm position now. There seems to be close to no contracts out there atm and perm positions are regularly getting 100+ applications within the first few hours, there also seems to be loads of dead job ads which are simply not going anywhere and are getting recycled constantly. The whole market seems to be moving to laying people off or hiring freezes, rather than creating new opportunities, so even if you land something, don't be surprised that the budget will be pulled and you'll be benched anyway.

[escapeUK]

I know nothing of your skillset or sector but a lot of people are struggling at the moment to find contracts so unless you have done your research I would think long and hard before jumping ship.

I think this is very good advice. We are clearly heading towards some very tough times, we are already in tough times and its going to get much worse. If you are in a role that is secure, I think its time to work hard and keep the money coming in. A lot of people are going to wish they had done so.

Imagine if you leave for a 6 month contract and then get nothing after that.

[DodgyAccountant]

Twenty or so years ago! :-o notice periods were hard for employers in the UK to enforce. They couldn't require you to turn up to work due to anti-slavery laws. If you didn't turn up, all they could do is not pay you. As soon as they don't pay you, the employment is over. They could sue you for breach of contract, but it's limited to one payment term - if you're paid monthly, then it's monthly - and the perceived damages that a judge could award are not worth the legal case. There were some exceptions to this, but it was almost impossible for companies to hold you to more than one month's notice. This may still be the case.

In Edison's case, I can't understand the mentality of the bosses. They're not going to get the best work out of anyone who doesn't want to be there! Any handover won't be done with goodwill. It's just daft.

However, I do not recommend shafting your notice period.

A quick search came up with

"The employer must also be able to demonstrate a causal connection between the employee’s refusal and any financial loss suffered by the business because of that, not to mention being able to demonstrate to the court that attempts were made by the employer to mitigate those losses. As such, suing an employee for breach of contract is only ever an option of last resort."

If the notice is 3 months, you could try to negotiate it down to one knowing you had a strong hand.

[MyUserName]

I did something similar with my last contract. I arranged for it to be changed from 40 hours a week to hours worked and that I could pick any hours I wanted as long as the work was done. I then got another 40 hour a week contract with a different client.

When the initial client realised that me picking any hours I wanted would mean I would not necessarily always be available in the standard working day they threw a tantrum and refused to pay my outstanding invoices etc.

You can negotiate these things but once clients see them in action they can change their mind pretty quickly and make life awkward.

[NotAllThere]

Twenty or so years ago! :-o notice periods were hard for employers in the UK to enforce. They couldn't require you to turn up to work due to anti-slavery laws. If you didn't turn up, all they could do is not pay you. As soon as they don't pay you, the employment is over. They could sue you for breach of contract, but it's limited to one payment term - if you're paid monthly, then it's monthly - and the perceived damages that a judge could award are not worth the legal case. There were some exceptions to this, but it was almost impossible for companies to hold you to more than one month's notice. This may still be the case.

In Edison's case, I can't understand the mentality of the bosses. They're not going to get the best work out of anyone who doesn't want to be there! Any handover won't be done with goodwill. It's just daft.

However, I do not recommend shafting your notice period.

[ladymuck]

If you have holiday to use up, you could juggle both gigs remotely and take days off from the perm job to attend the clientCo office.

Only you know if you could double dip like that, based on your workload.

[Fraidycat]

Hi all,
I've read a lot of old posts about overlapping (even about overlapping multiple gigs) so was wondering if that's the only other options viable...

Only you can assess if overlapping is a viable option. Maybe easy and low risk or hard and high risk. Depends on the roles and the clients.

But really just test the market by applying for gigs without mentioning anything about notice periods, see how much interest you get. See how many agents even phone you back. See how easy or hard it is to get the agent who posted the ad on the phone..

Personally if i found a really good gig and a had perm role with three months notice. I would start the new gig, hand in my notice, tell them i am leaving because of high stress and workload (nearly always true), ask to work a reduced notice period, if refused then take the rest of the notice period off sick due to the same mental health issues.

[WTFH]

Was thinking about this earlier.
It’s not a lengthy notice period, but it relies on you being professional, courteous and good at negotiating.
Whether you are a permie or a contractor, if you act in a professional manner with your employer/client, then they will probably do likewise. If you go in arrogant like you should be on the Apprentice, then you’ve got no chance.
Everything is negotiable, but can you be reasonable and professional?

[northernladuk]

Apply for contracts but tell agents you're on a one month notice.
Get offer of a contract starting in a month, give notice in current job and ask to leave early.
If they don't agree to release you early, have a tantrum.

This is the only way to get a contract without handing your notice in first, you may end up leaving on bad terms, and it's not a play I'd recommend, but I've seen it many times.

Unfortuantely this plan fails in the first sentence. Unless you are super niche or are head and shoulders above everyone else no agent is going to carry the discussion on past the one month notice point. That said lets assume there are gigs that can start in a month.

Chance of bagging the gig when the market is in the doldrums - Pretty slim
Chance of bagging a gig while perm with 100's of contractors applying - Not great
Chance of finding a gig that will wait a month for you to start - Very slim indeed

So chance of finding a suitable gig you can actually win being a perm that will start in a month - Miniscule change at best.

While this is the best option in theory it falls over on multiple points so IMO is a non starter. Try it while you are waiting but if you are hell bent on getting a gig and fairly soon it's a terrible plan.

[fiisch]

Apply for contracts but tell agents you're on a one month notice.
Get offer of a contract starting in a month, give notice in current job and ask to leave early.
If they don't agree to release you early, have a tantrum.

This is the only way to get a contract without handing your notice in first, you may end up leaving on bad terms, and it's not a play I'd recommend, but I've seen it many times.

[SussexSeagull]

I know nothing of your skillset or sector but a lot of people are struggling at the moment to find contracts so unless you have done your research I would think long and hard before jumping ship.

[northernladuk]

Its a very risky time to quit and hope a contract comes up. I tried for a contract recently that I thought was a great match to my skills and experience but struggled to even get noticed by the decision makers who were flooded with hundreds of CVs. So if you do quit, expect to be out of work for a full year, possibly more. I have been looking for a new contract over the last 2 years, and have managed to get a gran total of 2 interviews in that time!

If you can't get a gig in a year you shouldn't be looking at contracting at all. That's chancing it, not running a successful business.

[edison]

It might not be ideal but if you want to minimise the risk of no income, I would look for a PAYE FTC contract with a big co. as a way to transition from permie land to proper contracting. More likely to have a long lead-in period and less likely to fall through the week before you start.

But if you’re confident in being able to land a contract, and aren’t living paycheque to paycheque, I’d just resign and then get cracking.

Overlapping contracts may work but only if your notice period is light on work/responsibilities and both roles are remote. Even then, 3 months is a long time to juggle that and you’ll probably need a reference from the current employer so might be a non starter.

A FTC is not a bad shout in this case.

You don't know how your employer might take your resignation. I resigned from a well paid perm job over a decade ago to go contracting. I didn't have anything lined up, in fact I had barely started looking. But the market was different then.

My boss and his boss were put out by it and wouldn't negotiate on my 3 months notice. I ended up working the whole period and hated almost every day and this was a firm that I had enjoyed working at.

As others have said, quitting a perm job to go contracting is quite a high risk strategy. Worst case, you could find your new contract canned before you even start.

It really all depends on your financial position and attitude to risk. Also bear in mind that in 3 months time, school summer holidays will be approaching and the market will almost certainly quieten down over July and August.