Reply to: Day Rate Conversion Calculators - How Accurate Are They ?

[WTFH]

Thread closed at flouncers request.
Next time please put this in the General section, where banal discussions occur about Brexit, Boris etc.

[NowPermOutsideUK]

April:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...ella-rate.html
January we deleted 3 of his posts in this thread for the same thing:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...g-world-5.html
December 2021:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...-contract.html
November 2021:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...m-opinion.html

The OP trolls the professional forums every few weeks to create or derail threads to ask everyone if they agree with his latest opinion of what daily rate is equivalent to what permanent salary. He always makes assumptions, leaves out important parts of the equation, etc.
I'm not sure if this is actually part of a job he does, trying to find out what contractors think/earn, or what.

Next time he goes on about rates will be a permaban.

For seven years since 2015 I have been trying to achieve the objective above - My determination and perseverance has not paid off. So I am guilty as charged by WTFH and accept my life sentence to solitude confinement

So far this thread has moved away from a simple (quite common question which others have expressed an interest over) to personal insults and humiliation. It also questioned whether rates were important or what the individual burn rate of money was for that person. A most friendly bunch of colleagues who I am pleased to call friends for life : )

Perhaps the OP (me) is keen ambitious and regularly questions his net worth and wants to compare his net worth given that IR35 is so new - In the same way that landlords think about rent increases dozens of times a day I think about my salary and equivalent perm numbers many times a day is my defence.

I leave with my tail tucked between my legs still pondering how when you have interest in a role for someone who you have worked for and get the chance to propose perm / inside numbers.

The jury have concluded that discussion on rates in a bullish economical environment on a contractor forum is not appropriate - Instead we can look forward to Brexit and Boris posts.

[WTFH]

he's already been banned as londonPM, for the same tedious drivel.
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...ml#post2823372

He's already been banned under at least one other user name (back in 2015), has another user name that he set up in 2015 but never used, and is known on other websites as well

[jainnode]

he's already been banned as londonPM, for the same tedious drivel.
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...ml#post2823372

[eek]

One complication is the inside IR35 rate can mean lots of different things (with or without employers NI, umbrella fees, holiday pay etc). The figure in the contract can be very different from the figure in the job ad.

?????

Agencies will only advertise 1 of 2 rates - an all in assignment rate (i.e. the highest rate they can plausibly get away with) or a PAYE rate (which is what they are supposed to use but here advertising standards can't be arsed to police job adverts).

PAYE rate is what you pay an employee for an hours work so it will exclude / be after employer NI, holiday pay (which would be paid when you leave or take a holiday) and a 3% pension allowance has been deducted.

Assignment / Umbrella rate will be before Employer NI, holiday pay, umbrella costs because the whole point is to get the headline figure to be the highest figure possible

[malvolio]

The OP posted his theory in the first post, ignoring the "non-financial differences" of pension contributions, etc.
Would you like a different calculation to his?

I think my answer in one of the older threads on this subject is probably germane to this discussion. It was "Ask you accountant. If he's any good, his answer will be 'What do you want it to be?' "

[WTFH]

Regardless of how much you want to whinge about the OP, I would be interested in the answer to the question.

One complication is the inside IR35 rate can mean lots of different things (with or without employers NI, umbrella fees, holiday pay etc). The figure in the contract can be very different from the figure in the job ad.

So if there’s a simple answer to what is the perm rate equivalent to an inside daily rate of a specific type, then what is it? As the OP requested (but was ignored) you don’t need to worry about all the non-financial differences.

The OP posted his theory in the first post, ignoring the "non-financial differences" of pension contributions, etc.
Would you like a different calculation to his?

[hugebrain]

Regardless of how much you want to whinge about the OP, I would be interested in the answer to the question.

One complication is the inside IR35 rate can mean lots of different things (with or without employers NI, umbrella fees, holiday pay etc). The figure in the contract can be very different from the figure in the job ad.

So if there’s a simple answer to what is the perm rate equivalent to an inside daily rate of a specific type, then what is it? As the OP requested (but was ignored) you don’t need to worry about all the non-financial differences.

[WTFH]

Arguably if you're inside IR35 you're not actually a freelance contractor, are you...

Yes I know ; specious argument. Bit like this whole thread.

Inside IR35 is really just a permie without any benefits (tangible, intangible, or ignored).

Outside IR35, being a freelancer, then a one size fits all calculation is irrelevant as it depends on each person's circumstances and how their Ltd is run.

It's more important for a person to know what their burn rate is, and how they would survive if their income was reduced. Again, that's not a one size calculation, because people have mortgages, loans, investments, etc, and family to consider.

Which is why the OP's posts are specious, as you rightly say.

[malvolio]

Although if you're inside IR35, then there's no advantage of putting things through your own company, is there?

Arguably if you're inside IR35 you're not actually a freelance contractor, are you...

Yes I know ; specious argument. Bit like this whole thread.

[WTFH]

All those unused benefits you quote are part of the equation - but then I get all of them myself, via my own company, so in that sense they can be disregarded.

Although if you're inside IR35, then there's no advantage of putting things through your own company, is there?

[rocktronAMP]

In no particular order -

Is the agency/company solvent?

Is the agency/company known for pulling tricks with their payments or contracts?

Will I have to work all those 7-8 hours?

Will I learn something new ?

If I have a dental appointment (or random other appointment) will I be able to make up the time later so I can get paid?

If I have a dental appointment (or random other appointment) and can't be bothered to make up the time how do I charge?

Will I have to work in an office?

If I have to work in an office how far will I have to commute?

etc.




Ask a silly question you get a silly answer or a thread full of them.




You have started multiple threads asking the same question instead of bumping your original thread because you don't like the answers you keep getting. Regardless of the forum you are on, the admins/moderators get fed up if you keep doing that and will ban you.

The Boris Johnson is PM of the UK and the threads about his "ways" are in General which has the subheading - "All hope abandon ye who enter here. Seriously."

Sue Ellen, I really like those rhetorical questions.

Now I need to code these attributal questions into a Google Sheet / Excel. I just don't know how at the moment? Vis-a-vis make my own contract rate to permanent salary calculator.
Thank goodness though that everyone has a different value / ethics / morality / financial metric, intrinsically. If this was not true, then we would not be able to trade goods and service, if we are not able to value to trade, then the economy would have no fundamental basis.

I always wondered about folk who buy houses next door or accept living next to extremely very busy roads. I thought the couples who lived over there, e.g. infamous Cromwell Road, Earl's Court, West London, were strong sleepers... but hey nowt queer as folk.

[WTFH]

April:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...ella-rate.html
January we deleted 3 of his posts in this thread for the same thing:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...g-world-5.html
December 2021:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...-contract.html
November 2021:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...m-opinion.html

The OP trolls the professional forums every few weeks to create or derail threads to ask everyone if they agree with his latest opinion of what daily rate is equivalent to what permanent salary. He always makes assumptions, leaves out important parts of the equation, etc.
I'm not sure if this is actually part of a job he does, trying to find out what contractors think/earn, or what.

Next time he goes on about rates will be a permaban.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for your balanced response Malvalio.

Granted, the element missing from the question is the benefits you get contracting vs perm, but that is a separate question in my view and probably opening up a whole new can of worms ?

I took the OP’s question at face value of just financials.
!

And that is completely the wrong thing as has been pointed out the OP numerous times. You simply cannot do it. You will have bench time for considering anything else. You can take your contract from perm but that's nice and easy. Your next gig will be the hardest to get as you've very little experience and won't be earning while looking so in 3 months or even less your financials are completely meaningless.

It's all explained in this thread.

[Rik1087]

Thanks for your balanced response Malvalio.

Granted, the element missing from the question is the benefits you get contracting vs perm, but that is a separate question in my view and probably opening up a whole new can of worms ?

I took the OP’s question at face value of just financials.

hobnob - again, thanks for the response. Tbh, because calculators are so unreliable, and do make so many assumptions, I read between the lines of the OP’s statement and about calculators, and simply viewed it as Malvolio states 800 a day, is roughly 100k. I roughly know what 800 a day gives you monthly, and more accurately know what 100k an annum gives you monthly. I still feel the majority of contractors have a per annum figure, or monthly income that if achieved via perm would pack up the contracting malarkey. For some that maybe 120k a year or 250k a year, or for others never as the love and pure exhilaration and freedom of contracting outweighs any perm offering. ?

I think for many newbies (myself included) you do get bogged down in the financials as you’re in such a secure cocoon of permy world.

mince you’ve got a few contracts under your belt and money in the bank, you can then perhaps start to see all the other benefits that we haven’t done in our comparison (the ability to shove two fingers up at a client and take another contract elsewhere probably being priceless)!