Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[Andy Hallett]

Sure.
What cherry picking though. It is a very clear scenario. It seems it boils down to the flow of money and (may be) the sequence of money changing hands.
1. PSB pays agency, agency pays you = you are in
2. agency pays you and collect money from PSB before hand/later = you are out.

Am I missing something?

Only the bit where someone daft at the agency pre-pays you for work you have not done.

[northernladuk]

Only the bit where someone daft at the agency pre-pays you for work you have not done.

And that is never gonna happen

Some of them are daft but not that daft!!!

[northernladuk]

Sure.
What cherry picking though. It is a very clear scenario. It seems it boils down to the flow of money and (may be) the sequence of money changing hands.
1. PSB pays agency, agency pays you = you are in
2. agency pays you and collect money from PSB before hand/later = you are out.

Am I missing something?

It boils down to understanding how you deliver and to be able to understand when a scenario that might look attractive has no similarity to the way you work.

[LondonManc]

I don't think you can cherry pick bits of the scenario. You may as well say that if your name is Janice, the rules don't apply.

If you're looking at that, you could reasonably say that you're engaged by a consultancy to deliver xyz - therefore you're outside. It's not an unreasonable extension of logic if you're a specialist in IT to assume that nobody at the PS department could exercise much in the way of SDC given that you're the specialist they've engaged.

[MPwannadecentincome]

I see where your going with this. I fear this may make matters worse longer term though. If clients think taking on contractors is going to come with all the baggage of an employee the prospect of them taking on contractors is going to reduce. This surely has the potential to make matters even worse? Clients will end up force us all umbrella or FTC neither is that appealing to me (though being force indie IR35 is also grim).

or they create roles that they know are specifically outside IR35 and any they can't do this for they force through an umbrella

[eek]

or they create roles that they know are specifically outside IR35 and any they can't do this for they force through an umbrella

We have a winner. I suspect that will be the approach taken.

[BackupBoy]

Sure.
What cherry picking though. It is a very clear scenario. It seems it boils down to the flow of money and (may be) the sequence of money changing hands.
1. PSB pays agency, agency pays you = you are in
2. agency pays you and collect money from PSB before hand/later = you are out.

Am I missing something?

3) PSB pays (in Janice's case) the building company who then pay her (no agency here) for a specific and time-limited project delivery.

The building company make the determination.

In my case the money flow is PSB --> consultancy-->agency ---> my LTD. My contract is with the agency.

I think I'm outside but it's up to the consultancy to make that call. And soon.

[northernladuk]

3) PSB pays (in Janice's case) the building company who then pay her (no agency here) for a specific and time-limited project delivery.

The building company make the determination.

In my case the money flow is PSB --> consultancy-->agency ---> my LTD. My contract is with the agency.

I think I'm outside but it's up to the consultancy to make that call. And soon.

Based just on that? Your missing a couple of key things.

[Andy Hallett]

The building company make the determination.

But they don't, the intermediary requests and the PSB decides as I understand. It really boils down to what services the consultancy is providing.

Otherwise every agency would just say they are a consultancy and therefore rules don't apply.

PS and yes I have heard of a few agencies saying they are going to do this!

[BackupBoy]

Based just on that? Your missing a couple of key things.

Contract and working practices also passed by QDOS.

What else, please?