Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[puzzler]

why left out private ?

I am really somehow puzzled why govt/hmrc did not roll out same regime for the private sector ?

did they do it on purpose ? i.e. to roll at a later stage.... i.e. divide & conquer

or did they never want to implement this in private sector...

Is private sector contracting 100% safe for years to come ??

[northernladuk]

I am really somehow puzzled why govt/hmrc did not roll out same regime for the private sector ?

did they do it on purpose ? i.e. to roll at a later stage.... i.e. divide & conquer

or did they never want to implement this in private sector...

Is private sector contracting 100% safe for years to come ??

If you read any of the PS threads comments about this coming to the private sector appear very regularly.

It's not hard to work out the answer to the first few questions.

[DotasScandal]

I am really somehow puzzled why govt/hmrc did not roll out same regime for the private sector ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

[northernladuk]

And you are wrong in this case because:



The legislation is intentionally misleading and confusing and have us running around with assumptions like headless chickens. So this example means exactly what your bold text says.

Pass me the popcorn please......

[puzzler]

why left out private ?

If you read any of the PS threads comments about this coming to the private sector appear very regularly.

It's not hard to work out the answer to the first few questions.

any good guess how many months or years before the same will roll out to private sector ?

There is no point jumping from public to private if lets say the same is implemented for private sector in the next financial year !!

[jamesbrown]

I am really somehow puzzled why govt/hmrc did not roll out same regime for the private sector ?

It's a trial balloon. They're aware of the chaos that could (will) ensue. To have this rolled out to the private sector at the same time would risk a political event, and this was likely foreseen by Gauke et al., if not HMRC. It's about the only sensible move in this whole fiasco. However, when the noise dissipates, it will almost certainly come to the private sector (almost, because there is some level of epic FUBAR that would make them think twice). The problem here - and why an analogy to the now defunct BETs probably doesn't apply - is that the exodus from the PS will be an argument for extension to the private sector, rather than a prompt to reevaluate. However, there's also a slim chance of all this becoming OBE post the Taylor review (I doubt it).

[bobspud]

I am really somehow puzzled why govt/hmrc did not roll out same regime for the private sector ?

did they do it on purpose ? i.e. to roll at a later stage.... i.e. divide & conquer

or did they never want to implement this in private sector...

Is private sector contracting 100% safe for years to come ??

The plan was iron it out in the public sector and roll it into the private sector later however the fundamental point is that unlike Civil Servants, the private sector can happily just fetch the lawyers and tell HMRC to ***** off. Which is exactly what he PCG spent a decade doing for IR35 enquiries.

At the moment HMRC are under the impression the departments are going to fold without warning. But once a few of them see how hard it is to maintain staff and even hire replacements they will also be off to the legal profession to sort it out.

I can see why HMRC would also like to go for a nice retrospective grab on the basis of wrong judgments by departments, however the facts remain that when that happens there will still be a contract and working practices that show the opposite of what they think they are enforcing against.

[LondonManc]

I accept there are quite a few contractors who are ignorant of the implication of IR35 but there are a significant number who would rather see a true freelance market without staffing agencies.

If an agency writes and 'employment style' contract and engages a PSC contractor then they are misleading someone and it is always the contractor who will be caught in the crossfire. There is currently zero risk to the agency.

They exist and are called LinkedIn and networking.

[MoroccanMole]

The informed opinion is that it will be coming to the private sector.

Will the private sector adapt; that's the question.

On the basis of case law (MOO, substitution, SDC) confirming these are in place, and thus inside IR35 is the very same criteria that a tribunal would state that makes you eligible for employment rights (assuming you haven't pi**ed them away by going through a brolly).

A nice signed letter from the client (required to satisfy the new IR35 regulations) as to why they have determined you inside (SDC etc) will be good evidence for the tribunal.

Private Companies (Uber et al) make a conscious effort to set up their working arrangements so their contractors/employees are outside.

The positive view is that once rolled out to the private sector, the BOS permicontrator's can get thrown under the bus, and clients (scared of having to provide employment rights) will make suitable arrangements so their genuine contractors remain outside of IR35.

That's the optimistic view.......

[LondonManc]

The informed opinion is that it will be coming to the private sector.

Will the private sector adapt; that's the question.

On the basis of case law (MOO, substitution, SDC) confirming these are in place, and thus inside IR35 is the very same criteria that a tribunal would state that makes you eligible for employment rights (assuming you haven't pi**ed them away by going through a brolly).

A nice signed letter from the client (required to satisfy the new IR35 regulations) as to why they have determined you inside (SDC etc) will be good evidence for the tribunal.

Private Companies (Uber et al) make a conscious effort to set up their working arrangements so their contractors/employees are outside.

The positive view is that once rolled out to the private sector, the BOS permicontrator's can get thrown under the bus, and clients (scared of having to provide employment rights) will make suitable arrangements so their genuine contractors remain outside of IR35.

That's the optimistic view.......

Then there's the Indian factor - they'll potentially rather take cheap Wipro Indians etc rather than lower level contractors who would be inside IR35 as they can bin them off at a moment's notice anyway.