Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[cojak]

This might be a bit of an obvious question, but MSC won’t apply where someone has worked within IR35 and paid PAYE and NICS at source, right?

Correct, MSC challenges applies to Outside IR35 Ltds.

You just have to worry about using legit umbrellas.

[GregRickshaw]

That's not good. The problem is, having requested a review, they've now initiated proceedings. Following the review, they would have been given two choices (a) settle and pay up within 30 days or (b) appeal to the FTT.

Indeed and they are facing this exact problem, they have chosen the FTT route, trying to find out the date.

[eek]

Correct, MSC challenges applies to Outside IR35 Ltds.

You just have to worry about using legit umbrellas.

And that your umbrella isn’t a freebie offering from your accountancy firm

[RightAngle]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if anyone has received representation (legal or otherwise) to come to a settlement with HMRC rather than pursuing the legal route with regard to the MSC investigation involving Churchill Knight, Boox, etc?

If so, would you be able to recommend a representative that I could use?

Also, are you able to provide an indication as to whether HMRC were open to a settlement and did HMRC offer a reduction of tax owed?

Thanks so much for your help.

[eek]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if anyone has received representation (legal or otherwise) to come to a settlement with HMRC rather than pursuing the legal route with regard to the MSC investigation involving Churchill Knight, Boox, etc?

If so, would you be able to recommend a representative that I could use?

Also, are you able to provide an indication as to whether HMRC were open to a settlement and did HMRC offer a reduction of tax owed?

Thanks so much for your help.

You won’t get a discount from hmrc - either tax is owed in full or not owed at all

[GregRickshaw]

I'm sure HMRC will accommodate you, as long as you mean an in full settlement of your determination and your NIC.

There will be no Loan/Trustee type settlement at this stage. It will be for the full amount you owe.

For discount though no, but discount as in not paying double tax should be available.

However, it's tricky right now to even know what you fully owe and you are going to need a tax specialists to work out what your actual liability is.

HMRC have made guesstimates of all of the values so far based on a blanket approach to how all companies operated. If you can find someone, there are some good ones out there, to work out your full liabilities accurately... and you really want to put this to bed... and agree with HMRC's determination you were an MSC then that will not be a settlement just a payment of liabilities due

It's not a bad choice as long as you get the figure determined correctly, HMRC may still try to double tax you, there's no guarantee yet they won't double tax you.

It is a route many are considering now as this fight is likely to rumble on for many years.

Good luck I really hope you find rest for the weariness of this whole debacle.

[Guy Incognito]

However, it's tricky right now to even know what you fully owe and you are going to need a tax specialists to work out what your actual liability is.

Well it is either based on the company turnover - CT paid (used in the figures we have been sent) or the amount paid to the worker (which we think/hope is the correct method).

It would be a disaster if you paid the amounts they are currently asking for and then down the line it was established that the second method is correct.

[DealorNoDeal]

It's 9 months since HMRC put people under investigation and it would be a bit poor if they still couldn't work out how someone could settle.

Has anyone tried requesting a full and final settlement figure? You can do this at any time without prejudicing your position.

If they don't comply, you could ask your Member of Parliament to intervene on your behalf. MPs are pretty good at prodding HMRC to get their finger out.

[jamesbrown]

Well it is either based on the company turnover - CT paid (used in the figures we have been sent) or the amount paid to the worker (which we think/hope is the correct method).

It would be a disaster if you paid the amounts they are currently asking for and then down the line it was established that the second method is correct.

I don’t think it’s a different method, as such, more like a different starting assumption about the fraction paid to the worker (100% vs. actual), which favours speed and maximum liability, but I agree with DoND that they can easily do better at this stage.

[GregRickshaw]

It's 9 months since HMRC put people under investigation and it would be a bit poor if they still couldn't work out how someone could settle.

Has anyone tried requesting a full and final settlement figure? You can do this at any time without prejudicing your position.

If they don't comply, you could ask your Member of Parliament to intervene on your behalf. MPs are pretty good at prodding HMRC to get their finger out.

Trying to find out if the company who naively requested the full review got a full and final statement back after the 'independent' review. Pure guess here but I imagine the full and final includes already paid CT and DT.... and that would take a second claim/procedure. Sadly the company we know about who had the review and now face a FTT have vanished from any form of communication.