Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

HMRC can issues follower notices though which are a nasty piece of work!

They can only issue FNs after a final judgment. If CK appeal to the UTT, then HMRC can't issue FNs. If the case goes all the way to the Supreme Court, then only after that could HMRC issue FNs.

---------

As an aside, it is to be hoped that at least some of the lead cases are representative of the way you guys here ran your PSCs. Then the outcome of the FTT would at least give you a steer on whether it was worth pursuing your own individual appeals.

[J256]

Hoping for some help. I used Boox from 2015 to April 2019 and for my sins I'm now here.

I received my first letter(s) on Monday 5th Dec having no idea at all about this situation, I stopped contracting in April 2020.

One from my current accountant (not Boox) dated 18 nov. In this letter it says "HMRC wrote to me on 29th March 22 explaining HMRC's position....." I never received this letter. It goes on to say HMRC believes conditions a,c and d of 61B (interestingly not b) apply therefore my company is an MSC.

One from HMRC dated 28 Nov. This had my tax determination and NIC decisions. With a very large bill for National insurance contributions, doesn't detail exactly for what years but the "attributable earnings" are from more then one year.

On Wednesday the 7th Dec

I received another letter from my current accountant dated 28 Nov. This had the notice 80 for PAYE for years 18/19 and 19/20. Boox didn't do my accounts the 19/20 year so is that invalid? This letter also had the national insurance bill again.

Questions

To start I was 100% not an MSC, and have no intention of paying a penny.

Do I have until the 18 Dec or 28 Dec to appeal?

Is the 2017 year of the table as its past the 5 years?

Having changed accountant in April 2019 is the 19/20 year of the table?

Can someone send me the appeals template for DK as I've had no reply from Boox with their template.

[Chevalier]

Hoping for some help. I used Boox from 2015 to April 2019 and for my sins I'm now here.

I received my first letter(s) on Monday 5th Dec having no idea at all about this situation, I stopped contracting in April 2020.

One from my current accountant (not Boox) dated 18 nov. In this letter it says "HMRC wrote to me on 29th March 22 explaining HMRC's position....." I never received this letter. It goes on to say HMRC believes conditions a,c and d of 61B (interestingly not b) apply therefore my company is an MSC.

One from HMRC dated 28 Nov. This had my tax determination and NIC decisions. With a very large bill for National insurance contributions, doesn't detail exactly for what years but the "attributable earnings" are from more then one year.

On Wednesday the 7th Dec

I received another letter from my current accountant dated 28 Nov. This had the notice 80 for PAYE for years 18/19 and 19/20. Boox didn't do my accounts the 19/20 year so is that invalid? This letter also had the national insurance bill again.

Questions

To start I was 100% not an MSC, and have no intention of paying a penny.

Do I have until the 18 Dec or 28 Dec to appeal?

Is the 2017 year of the table as its past the 5 years?

Having changed accountant in April 2019 is the 19/20 year of the table?

Can someone send me the appeals template for DK as I've had no reply from Boox with their template.

What matters is the date of the actual determinations that say you owe them money. The date you received it or the date your accountant sent it is immaterial.

HMRC normally send letters to the company’s registered address, so if this is your current accountant, that’s where you would expect correspondence to go.

[CA100]

Hoping for some help. I used Boox from 2015 to April 2019 and for my sins I'm now here.

I received my first letter(s) on Monday 5th Dec having no idea at all about this situation, I stopped contracting in April 2020.

One from my current accountant (not Boox) dated 18 nov. In this letter it says "HMRC wrote to me on 29th March 22 explaining HMRC's position....." I never received this letter. It goes on to say HMRC believes conditions a,c and d of 61B (interestingly not b) apply therefore my company is an MSC.

One from HMRC dated 28 Nov. This had my tax determination and NIC decisions. With a very large bill for National insurance contributions, doesn't detail exactly for what years but the "attributable earnings" are from more then one year.

On Wednesday the 7th Dec

I received another letter from my current accountant dated 28 Nov. This had the notice 80 for PAYE for years 18/19 and 19/20. Boox didn't do my accounts the 19/20 year so is that invalid? This letter also had the national insurance bill again.

Questions

To start I was 100% not an MSC, and have no intention of paying a penny.

Do I have until the 18 Dec or 28 Dec to appeal?

Is the 2017 year of the table as its past the 5 years?

Having changed accountant in April 2019 is the 19/20 year of the table?

Can someone send me the appeals template for DK as I've had no reply from Boox with their template.

17/18 tax year is allowed for HMRC. The NI claim covers all years from 17/18 in one amount.

You've got until 28 December to get one appeal in. It's 30 days from the date on the HMRC letter. When you received it is irrelevant. Boox do have a template you can use, or at least they've sent me one. If you can't get them to send it you can just write your own letter - it's not too difficult and the main thing is to hit the deadline. I would certainly do your own for 19/20 because it's a special situation and you should be able to get this year removed (although there's a question if Boox did cover any part of April 19).

You do however have a problem with your March letter. You've missed the deadline and it's from HMRC sending - technically whether you receive it is irrelevant. You may be able to persuade HMRC to sympathise with this and allow an appeal. I know others on here have had the same situation and may be able to advise on what to do and HMRC response.

You might want to consider joining one of the paid groups. They will submit an appeal for you, submit your conditional claims and answer questions. They're not very expensive and quite helpful if you're new to all this. They could also help with the missed letter situation.

[nekro]

For those that have made PoA. Did you do anything other than simply quoting your SAFE reference number when making the payment?
I've just spoken with the HMRC Payments team and they have advised that if you have a SAFE reference number beginning with 'X' the payment can only be used for that specific demand.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm aware that others have made PoA but subsequently found their payment has been used for other demands.

Answering my own question following advice from WTT.

Do not use the SAFE reference number included on the Reg 80. You need to call the HMRC payments team and request a new SAFE reference number making it clear this is for payment on account and not final liability.

[jimmyoyang]

Answering my own question following advice from WTT.

Do not use the SAFE reference number included on the Reg 80. You need to call the HMRC payments team and request a new SAFE reference number making it clear this is for payment on account and not final liability.

Thanks for this!

I was advised by QDOS to use the SAFE ref number on the Reg 80 as payment on account. Good thing I haven't started the transfers, yet.

Please do let me know how you are along with getting in touch with the HMRC payments team.

I've actually reached out to them (the HMRC MSC team) via email regarding any outstanding determinations as I have not been receiving any other than the one PAYE one. And it seems everyone else has got the majority of their determinations for the outstanding years. I'm just worried they're lost in the post.

[nekro]

Thanks for this!

I was advised by QDOS to use the SAFE ref number on the Reg 80 as payment on account. Good thing I haven't started the transfers, yet.

Please do let me know how you are along with getting in touch with the HMRC payments team.

I've actually reached out to them (the HMRC MSC team) via email regarding any outstanding determinations as I have not been receiving any other than the one PAYE one. And it seems everyone else has got the majority of their determinations for the outstanding years. I'm just worried they're lost in the post.

I haven't received my Reg 80s for FY 18/19, 19/20 yet. Just a letter stating that I should expect to receive them shortly.

[Guy Incognito]

Mine never arrived in the post but both Boox and DK got them.

[GregRickshaw]

Mine never arrived in the post but both Boox and DK got them.

I hope one of those parties let you know they had them!

[Guy Incognito]

I hope one of those parties let you know they had them!

Yes. I got the NI letter but not the two reg 80s even though they were dated the same date.

I then had some very confusing conversations with DK because he assumed I'd had what he had.

Then Boox emailed me a week later with the full set.