Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

Go and read the judgments - I'm not talking about what CBS did - rather I'm talking about the tests applied within the judgments - because they took the CBS stupidity and created some very low bars that HMRC are now looking to (ab)use.

You're right, and I suppose there's a certain inevitability about that.

If arrangement A goes to court, and loses, it's quite likely the judgment will end up being A+ or even, as in this case, A++.

[Chris Bryce]

Go and read the judgments - I'm not talking about what CBS did - rather I'm talking about the tests applied within the judgments - because they took the CBS stupidity and created some very low bars that HMRC are now looking to (ab)use.

Because the points HMRC are using / attacking isn't that Boox / CK managed all the invoices and bank accounts for the workers after creating their limited companies - the attack is on things such as Boox / CK said pay a salary of £x,000 and take the rest as dividends.

Indeed. It is often the modus operandi of HMRC (and others) to make incremental inroads in order to slowly, step-by-step, tip the balance in their favour.

[GregRickshaw]

Interesting turn of events.

HMRC have issued interest charges to some who have paid their reg80 determinations on account!

30 days to pay the interest charge

Another round of fresh hell to add to the horrible mouldy stale hell those involved are still going through.

[Chevalier]

Strange… were the appeals “stood over”?

[GregRickshaw]

Apparently yes.

HMRC did have the caveat they can add interest to determinations but you would think that would apply to those only who have not 'paid' the debt.

Applying interest now could be interesting as the rates at the moment are fairly low, in five years time who knows.

To anyone who thought this was going to go away and HRMC weren't going to hunt down and extract every penny from this attack this serves as a reminder this is serious.

[DealorNoDeal]

I've never come across a case before of HMRC demanding interest before an appeal is finally settled. That's a new one.

They certainly seem to be pulling out all the stops for you guys.

[Lotok]

Apparently yes.

HMRC did have the caveat they can add interest to determinations but you would think that would apply to those only who have not 'paid' the debt.

Applying interest now could be interesting as the rates at the moment are fairly low, in five years time who knows.

To anyone who thought this was going to go away and HRMC weren't going to hunt down and extract every penny from this attack this serves as a reminder this is serious.

How can they charge interest when the appeal isn't over and the amounts quotes on the letters that wen't out last march were all wrong anyway?

I've not received an interest letter yet, hopefully wont.

I must admit, I have been hoping this just goes away, its a total nightmare. For HMRC to try and change the rules and backdate charges on people who have paid the correct tax and followed their rules is messed up.

[Lotok]

Strange… were the appeals “stood over”?

They didn't even reply to my appeal, I think David Kirk had said as long as you have it in your sent box they will accept it as they dont have the manpower to go through them. Not so much stood over as just not read.

[GregRickshaw]

How can they charge interest when the appeal isn't over and the amounts quotes on the letters that wen't out last march were all wrong anyway?

I've not received an interest letter yet, hopefully wont.

I must admit, I have been hoping this just goes away, its a total nightmare. For HMRC to try and change the rules and backdate charges on people who have paid the correct tax and followed their rules is messed up.

This it the mystery especially as the payments have effectively been paid on account. The word is it may be a mistake as the interest rate is 13%! We await confirmation it is a mistake.

The amounts aren't necessarily 'wrong' but they are estimates and do not include the Corporation Tax and Dividend Tax you have already paid, there is a calculator out there somewhere where you can add your CT and Dividend Tax (not mention of VAT yet) and it will come up with the PAYE you allegedly owe. When I did mine at the start it virtually erased it.

It's not going to go away unfortunately, not until the appeals are all done in court which could be 5 years after all appeals and retrials etc.,

HMRC haven't changed the rules, they have applied rules built into MSC legislation, your hope is they have misinterpreted them or at worst are trying to bend them enough to capture us. Unfortunately the so called experts (some of who have 10 years experience allegedly) have yet to prove this is the case.

As many have said on here HMRC will push and bend the rules enough each time to attempt to enforce, for me it's always been their opportunity to drive as many LTDs into Brollies or PAYE and from what I hear that bit has worked very well.

I agree it is a nightmare, but there is a chance if you can present HMRC with all your evidence (in your own appeal) should CK or Boox be proved to be the P in all of this, then there may still be a way out.

The figures HMRC have sent are very scary but remember the double taxation so your actually figure for PAYE will be much lower, even if your case is lost.

Hang on in there and stay strong and remember ultimately it's only money.

[GregRickshaw]

They didn't even reply to my appeal, I think David Kirk had said as long as you have it in your sent box they will accept it as they dont have the manpower to go through them. Not so much stood over as just not read.

David seems a good guy but I would not trust him or HMRC to have the details correct. I made sure I had written confirmation of my appeal.