Things about to get very serious and much more real? / Felicitas Letters

[piebaps]

Andy Wood @ ETC Tax is a Barrister as well as a tax advisor Andy Wood - ETC Tax

I'm sure I've seen a reference to a law firm called Freeths somewhere in all this madness but I can't find it now.

[eek]

Andy Wood @ ETC Tax is a Barrister as well as a tax advisor Andy Wood - ETC Tax

I'm sure I've seen a reference to a law firm called Freeths somewhere in all this madness but I can't find it now.

Someone was definitely using them - my only concern is that Freeths are a English law firm and this is likely to be in the Isle of Man.

[MrO666]

"We think a court would expect" - Clearly they have no knowledge of what a court would or would not expect.

"The following documents either are, or might be, in our possession" - Might be...WTF is that supposed to mean.

"Please take into account that disputing the debt is likely to cost you much more in the long run." - This is clearly not written by anyone who has an ounce of legal knowledge. This is certainly not how a legal professional would write a genuine debt recovery letter.

"We will need to recover the extra costs involved, and these costs will come from you" - They have absolutely no way of being able to say this at all. They're claiming that any court would by default just pass their costs onto the alleged debtor. They're making a statement that they have absolutely no way of substantiating.

In short, it's a very threatening letter (which it's intended to be) and one which may actually be bordering on harassment IMHO. They're demanding money without any evidence that it's legally owed.

Also, any genuine, well constructed legal attempt to recover genuine debt, would not include a list of random documents that they might or might not have. That's purely a way to make people think "oh no, they have all these documents"........bulltulip basically.

As others have said, they still, despite being asked by many people numerous times, have not proved any ownership of or right to recover these alleged debts. They are being very forceful and aggressive with what they will do, and appear to claim that it's cut and dry and a court would find in their favour. However, I believe that a court would also be quite interested in exactly why, despite numerous requests from all manner of people including tax and law firms, Felicitas still refuse to provide a genuine documented path as to if or how they came to allegedly own these "loans".

If this went to court, if you were able to show evidence that despite asking, Felicitas stance was basically "you owe now pay up" without ever providing any verifiable evidence, then I fail to see how that would not be taken into account. Why would any reasonable person pay money for an alleged debt, when the alleged creditor was either unwilling, or unable to provide any bonafide evidence when requested to do so. In fact, any genuine creditor would usually be very keen to provide this evidence from day one, as it would just reinforce their claim. All I've ever seen was a one page apparent transfer document with no name or signature on it......how is that supposed to be taken seriously, absolutely anyone could have knocked that up in MS Word.....and probably did?


I still can't see this ever heading to court, there's just far too many holes in the way in which they're approaching it.

Also, didn't they ask for funds to be paid into a totally different account..............now why would they do that ?

[Fred Bloggs]

Dear me, that's a scary letter. How scary it actually turns out to be, I wouldn't care to hazard a guess. I wouldn't like to have received one of these, for sure.

[webberg]

To repeat.

WTT is a tax specialist in this area.

A couple of years ago we added a Legal function to our company.

We also sought and established relationships with IOM law firms, with a view to contesting matters (if required) in the IOM Courts.

(We also have similar arrangements with law firms in other jurisdictions as well as the UK).

Given the complexity of the tax scenario, the ability to explain to a law firm the situation and to subsequently act as an "expert witness" allows considerable saving of legal time.

[Superfly]

"We think a court would expect" - Clearly they have no knowledge of what a court would or would not expect.

"The following documents either are, or might be, in our possession" - Might be...WTF is that supposed to mean.

"Please take into account that disputing the debt is likely to cost you much more in the long run." - This is clearly not written by anyone who has an ounce of legal knowledge. This is certainly not how a legal professional would write a genuine debt recovery letter.

"We will need to recover the extra costs involved, and these costs will come from you" - They have absolutely no way of being able to say this at all. They're claiming that any court would by default just pass their costs onto the alleged debtor. They're making a statement that they have absolutely no way of substantiating.

In short, it's a very threatening letter (which it's intended to be) and one which may actually be bordering on harassment IMHO. They're demanding money without any evidence that it's legally owed.

Also, any genuine, well constructed legal attempt to recover genuine debt, would not include a list of random documents that they might or might not have. That's purely a way to make people think "oh no, they have all these documents"........bulltulip basically.

As others have said, they still, despite being asked by many people numerous times, have not proved any ownership of or right to recover these alleged debts. They are being very forceful and aggressive with what they will do, and appear to claim that it's cut and dry and a court would find in their favour. However, I believe that a court would also be quite interested in exactly why, despite numerous requests from all manner of people including tax and law firms, Felicitas still refuse to provide a genuine documented path as to if or how they came to allegedly own these "loans".

If this went to court, if you were able to show evidence that despite asking, Felicitas stance was basically "you owe now pay up" without ever providing any verifiable evidence, then I fail to see how that would not be taken into account. Why would any reasonable person pay money for an alleged debt, when the alleged creditor was either unwilling, or unable to provide any bonafide evidence when requested to do so. In fact, any genuine creditor would usually be very keen to provide this evidence from day one, as it would just reinforce their claim. All I've ever seen was a one page apparent transfer document with no name or signature on it......how is that supposed to be taken seriously, absolutely anyone could have knocked that up in MS Word.....and probably did?


I still can't see this ever heading to court, there's just far too many holes in the way in which they're approaching it.

Also, didn't they ask for funds to be paid into a totally different account..............now why would they do that ?

They are asking for funds to be paid by 31st March 2021 because that is when Fiscus Management Limited year-end company accounts are due and that is when they will apply for voluntary strike-off and run off with the loot that has been relinquished by the low hanging fruit. They are lucky that Covid has given them an extension to allow this circus to run for another 3 months.

This is a last chance attempt to give the tree a shake and see if anything drops. I have had debt enforcement letters in my time but this one is comical. Straight off the bat, I can see at least half a dozen errors without even looking deeply. I want to mention them but at the risk of having my post removed for giving Felicitas freebies, I will resist.

We wont prove the veracity of the alleged debt and that we are owners of the alleged debt and that trust laws were followed in the transfer of the alleged debt BUT we want you to agree to mediation AND we want you to pay half of the costs, ha what a joke, in all my years. They have attempted to make the letter threatening because they don't have the paperwork to support the claim, otherwise they would have been able to verify the debt with a few bits of paper and would have had to use a minimal threatening language. Wreaks of the scam that it is.

Just remember how many times they have told you "this is the last time" or "you have 14 days"

Chuck the letter in the bin. If you are still worried, get yourself an adviser (EtcTax or WTT or any other reliable adviser), let Felicitas prove to your adviser their claim. Until then, don't pay them a penny.

[eek]

They are asking for funds to be paid by 31st March 2021 because that is when Fiscus Management Ltds Accounts are due and that is when they will apply for voluntary strikeoff and run off with the loot that has been relinquished by the low hanging fruit. They are lucky that Covid has given them an extension to allow this circus to run for another 6 months.

This is a last chance attempt to give the tree a shake and see if anything drops. I have had debt enforcement letters in my time but this one is comical. Straight off the bat, I can see at least half a dozen errors without even looking deeply. I want to mention them but at the risk of having my post removed for giving Felicitas freebies, I will resist.

We wont prove the veracity of the debt and that we are owners of the alleged debt and that trust laws were followed in the transfer of the alleged debt BUT we want you to agree to mediation AND we want you to pay half of the costs, ha what a joke, in all my years.

Just remember how many times they have told you "this is the last time" or "you have 14 days"

Chuck the letter in the bin. If you are still worried, get yourself an advisor (EtcTax or WTT or any other ), let Felicitas prove to your advisor their claim. Until then, don't pay them a penny.

Why has Covid given them another 6 Months given your previous about the deadline? That 31st March datehasn't changed and Felicitas needed to provide a few months to collect what they could

Now I see no reason to pay up as without any discount there is zero point not pushing it to mediation (with proper help) but I would be preparing For that mediation rather than ignoring this letter (but I would not be accepting any of their suggested mediators).

Once again my suggestion from would be to get your paperwork and join Wtt (or etc) as they may have information you won't otherwise have.

[Superfly]

Why has Covid given them another 6 Months given your previous about the deadline? That 31st March datehasn't changed and Felicitas needed to provide a few months to collect what they could

Now I see no reason to pay up as without any discount there is zero point not pushing it to mediation (with proper help) but I would be preparing For that mediation rather than ignoring this letter (but I would not be accepting any of their suggested mediators).

Once again my suggestion from would be to get your paperwork and join Wtt (or etc) as they may have information you won't otherwise have.

My mistake, should be three month extension.

Companies to receive 3-month extension period to file accounts during COVID-19 - GOV.UK

[eek]

My mistake, should be three month extension.

Companies to receive 3-month extension period to file accounts during COVID-19 - GOV.UK

Apart from the director what has Fiscus Management Ltd got to do with this and why does year end accounts actually matter?

[DealorNoDeal]

Yes but that doesn't mean they cannot legally demand and receive repayment of the loans that were issues.

And it may not be fair by any definition of the word fair but it's likely to be 100% legal.

I know, you're right. I just don't get these people.