Things about to get very serious and much more real? / Felicitas Letters

[cojak]

Yes as you are still trying to argue that the money you received was not a loan - which is fine as part of an argument when it reaches the court / mediation but it's completely irrelevant here.

Assume the court will start on the basis that it was a loan and find any and all evidence that shows it isn't. Semantics of phrase attached to receiving a sum of money may or may not be relevant - but I would hope you have a far better argument than the one you've posted on here.

(...but if you have, DON'T post it on here.)

[Simon100]

(...but if you have, DON'T post it on here.)

It would be great to have a big sticky at the top to remind people. Felicitas have had way too many free ones.

Also, while it's not really my place, I would suggest those impacted to reach out to WTT or ETC Tax.

[Lonerous]

I've received more correspondence from Felicitas. Details below, with dates and loan amounts redacted.

This letter is a demand for the repayment of ‘x’ that was lent to you by the trustee of the IQ Settlement (the Original Lender). We are demanding this repayment from you for the following reasons.

1. On ‘x date’, the Original Lender agreed to lend you money, and you agreed at clause 4 of the loan deed that you would repay it on demand.

2. The loan deed was signed by the trustee in the Isle of Man and is retained here by our agent. This means that the condition precedent at clause 15 of the loan deed was met.

4. The right to receive your repayment was contributed by the Original Lender to the IQ Employer Financed Retirement Benefit Scheme (the EFRBS) on various dates between ‘x’ and ‘y’.

5. The right to receive your repayment was assigned again, this time from the EFRBS to us, on 10 January this year. This makes us the legal holder of the right to receive your repayment. The loan deed does not specify a notice period, which means your repayment is due immediately. Under clauses 4 and 5 of the loan deed you signed, if the balance is not repaid before 31st March 2021, interest of 2.5% will be added to the balance.

What if you accept the debt, but cannot pay by 30 October 2020?

Our formal offer for early, discounted and voluntary settlement of your loans is now closed. Many of our debtors did take advantage of our offer, or of one of the offers made by a prior lender. However, you did not, so we are now demanding repayment of the loans mentioned. We are still prepared to consider any substantial repayment proposal you wish to make. This repayment demand covers only the loans mentioned in this letter. It does not affect your other loans with us. However, if you are making a repayment proposal that falls short of full repayment by 30 October 2020, we will insist that you include all your other loans with us, so that they are all dealt with together. There are further details of your other loans in our earlier letters. If you make a repayment proposal, we will consider your individual circumstances before deciding whether to accept it. To make a repayment proposal, it is important that you do not wait. Get in touch now using the contact details at the top of this letter. A prompt response will be given more favourable consideration. Any repayment proposal will only be considered until Friday 30 October 2020.

What if you dispute the debt?

If you dispute the debt, you should reply to us giving your reasons why. Please state in your letter whether you would agree to mediation, at shared cost. The debt appears to us to be straight forward, and we think a court would expect you to reply within 14 days. We will investigate fairly any reasons you give. If we disagree, we will offer to resolve the dispute through mediation, at shared cost. If you do not agree to mediation, or the mediation is unsuccessful, we will recover the debt through court proceedings. Please take into account that disputing the debt is likely to cost you much more in the long run. We will need to recover the extra costs involved, and these costs will come from you. On top of this you will have your own costs to pay, including the cost of the mediation or legal representation. The following documents either are, or might be, in our possession:

a) Correspondence between you and the Original Lender in which you request or enquire about the loans.
b) The original loan deed you signed, countersigned by the Original Lender.
c) Copies of the Original Lender’s bank statements, evidencing the payments to you.
d) Correspondence between you and the original lender in which you acknowledge receipt of the payments.
e) Your contract of employment with the Original Lender, and any associated documents such as payslips, a P60 or a P45.
f) One or more deeds of addition and contribution by which the creditor’s rights were assigned to the IQ EFRBS.
g) The deed of assignment by which the creditor’s rights were assigned to us. h) Copies of letters notifying you of the above assignments.
h) Copies of letters notifying you of the above assignments.
i) Other relevant documents.

[eek]

As I suspected and expected in August when I guessed their game plan...

[cojak]

Oh, I love this bit...

The following documents either are, or might be, in our possession:

Which means, of course, that they might not be.

The usual bluster of these types. Make them prove that they are in possession of the necessary documents - don't share anything with them through some crap portal.

[DanJackiels]

I've received more correspondence from Felicitas. Details below, with dates and loan amounts redacted.

This letter is a demand for the repayment of ‘x’ that was lent to you by the trustee of the IQ Settlement (the Original Lender). We are demanding this repayment from you for the following reasons.

1. On ‘x date’, the Original Lender agreed to lend you money, and you agreed at clause 4 of the loan deed that you would repay it on demand.

2. The loan deed was signed by the trustee in the Isle of Man and is retained here by our agent. This means that the condition precedent at clause 15 of the loan deed was met.

4. The right to receive your repayment was contributed by the Original Lender to the IQ Employer Financed Retirement Benefit Scheme (the EFRBS) on various dates between ‘x’ and ‘y’.

5. The right to receive your repayment was assigned again, this time from the EFRBS to us, on 10 January this year. This makes us the legal holder of the right to receive your repayment. The loan deed does not specify a notice period, which means your repayment is due immediately. Under clauses 4 and 5 of the loan deed you signed, if the balance is not repaid before 31st March 2021, interest of 2.5% will be added to the balance.

What if you accept the debt, but cannot pay by 30 October 2020?

Our formal offer for early, discounted and voluntary settlement of your loans is now closed. Many of our debtors did take advantage of our offer, or of one of the offers made by a prior lender. However, you did not, so we are now demanding repayment of the loans mentioned. We are still prepared to consider any substantial repayment proposal you wish to make. This repayment demand covers only the loans mentioned in this letter. It does not affect your other loans with us. However, if you are making a repayment proposal that falls short of full repayment by 30 October 2020, we will insist that you include all your other loans with us, so that they are all dealt with together. There are further details of your other loans in our earlier letters. If you make a repayment proposal, we will consider your individual circumstances before deciding whether to accept it. To make a repayment proposal, it is important that you do not wait. Get in touch now using the contact details at the top of this letter. A prompt response will be given more favourable consideration. Any repayment proposal will only be considered until Friday 30 October 2020.

What if you dispute the debt?

If you dispute the debt, you should reply to us giving your reasons why. Please state in your letter whether you would agree to mediation, at shared cost. The debt appears to us to be straight forward, and we think a court would expect you to reply within 14 days. We will investigate fairly any reasons you give. If we disagree, we will offer to resolve the dispute through mediation, at shared cost. If you do not agree to mediation, or the mediation is unsuccessful, we will recover the debt through court proceedings. Please take into account that disputing the debt is likely to cost you much more in the long run. We will need to recover the extra costs involved, and these costs will come from you. On top of this you will have your own costs to pay, including the cost of the mediation or legal representation. The following documents either are, or might be, in our possession:

a) Correspondence between you and the Original Lender in which you request or enquire about the loans.
b) The original loan deed you signed, countersigned by the Original Lender.
c) Copies of the Original Lender’s bank statements, evidencing the payments to you.
d) Correspondence between you and the original lender in which you acknowledge receipt of the payments.
e) Your contract of employment with the Original Lender, and any associated documents such as payslips, a P60 or a P45.
f) One or more deeds of addition and contribution by which the creditor’s rights were assigned to the IQ EFRBS.
g) The deed of assignment by which the creditor’s rights were assigned to us. h) Copies of letters notifying you of the above assignments.
h) Copies of letters notifying you of the above assignments.
i) Other relevant documents.

Jeez - not good
not received yet. but time to get help.

[DealorNoDeal]

Sometimes I wonder if there is more than one species of human

The loans were only ever a disguised payment method to avoid tax, which didn't even work. People have now been forced to pay tax on them.

[GregRickshaw]

Many of our debtors did take advantage of our offer, or of one of the offers made by a prior lender.
[/B]

Classic HMRC quote

I read a book about how HMRC included that in all their letters and it increased their collections by around 15%

I have noticed many debt collection agencies including this in their replies.

[eek]

The loans were only ever a disguised payment method to avoid tax, which didn't even work. People have now been forced to pay tax on them.

Trying to demand repayment is a pretty low-life (sub-species) thing to do.

Yes but that doesn't mean they cannot legally demand and receive repayment of the loans that were issues.

And it may not be fair by any definition of the word fair but it's likely to be 100% legal.

[michalini]

So, I know about ETC/WTT groups, which are tax consultants. Do similar groups exist, but with law firms?