Muslims stirring it

[Hawk]

A religious marriage ceremony is someone's 'human right'?

I'm shocked too, that such a poor-quality troll hasn't been insta-banned.

Erm, yes. If they want it, it is a right. Or do you think they don't have this right, to be married in the eyes of their lord.

A basic tenet of Human rights laws is freedom from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and freedom of religious expression

If the Government stress that no church will be compelled by law to conduct same sex marriages, I doubt if this will be enough to satisfy a Human Rights directive if two homosexuals take their case to Europe. I can see this thrown out very quickly.

Edit:

June 2012:
[The] Church of England sounded the alarm that “it must be very doubtful whether limiting same-sex couples to non-religious forms and ceremonies could withstand a challenge under the European Convention on Human Rights”

EU Courts 2010 strongly suggested that once states do allow equal marriage, gay couples will be protected in exactly the same way as heterosexual couples in terms of marriage rights. Which in turn means that the European Court of Human Rights might be more willing to intervene once a state has legalised gay marriages and therefore brought homosexuals and heterosexuals under the same umbrella of equalities protections.

[d000hg]

Erm, yes. If they want it, it is a right.

Sounds like entitlement thinking to me.

It's not my 'right' to demand an Islamic wedding, they surely can legitimately refuse to marry me on the grounds I am not a Muslim despite it being "all I ever wanted because I love the way Mosques are decorated". I'm not even sure a civil wedding is a 'human right' although that could easily be wrong.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If it's any help I believe CofE has an exemption because of pre-existing Cannon law which would have to be overturned to allow them to marry people of same sex

[Hawk]

Sounds like entitlement thinking to me.

It's not my 'right' to demand an Islamic wedding, they surely can legitimately refuse to marry me on the grounds I am not a Muslim despite it being "all I ever wanted because I love the way Mosques are decorated". I'm not even sure a civil wedding is a 'human right' although that could easily be wrong.

No, this is the point you don't understand, it is a right under Human rights legislation. If the country allows same sex marriage, then they have to be treated equally as hetrosexual couples, based on both sexual discrimination and freedom of religious expression laws.

How can you not see it?

[NotAllThere]

They should do what they do in other European countries. You can only legally be married in a registrary office.

What's next? The church being obliged to baptise unbelievers on the grounds of "non-discrimination"? The courts deciding who's a believer and who isn't?

It'll be an interesting societical change. Probably resulting in an overall lack of freedom.

[Hawk]

They should do what they do in other European countries. You can only legally be married in a registrary office.

What's next? The church being obliged to baptise unbelievers on the grounds of "non-discrimination"? The courts deciding who's a believer and who isn't?

It'll be an interesting societical change. Probably resulting in an overall lack of freedom.

I don't see the similarities; we're talking about believers wishing to be married in the eyes of their lord. Not unbelievers. Freedom of religious expression to all.

But yes, the way out of it is to not allow them the right to marry outside of civil ceremonies. It's how Austria has avoided it, I know.

But once you allow them the right to be married in 'a' church, then they have the right to be married in any church, even the CoE understand this.

[Hawk]

Sounds like entitlement thinking to me.

It's not my 'right' to demand an Islamic wedding, they surely can legitimately refuse to marry me on the grounds I am not a Muslim despite it being "all I ever wanted because I love the way Mosques are decorated". I'm not even sure a civil wedding is a 'human right' although that could easily be wrong.

You've not read anything have you:

EU Courts 2010 strongly suggested that once states do allow equal marriage, gay couples will be protected in exactly the same way as heterosexual couples in terms of marriage rights. Which in turn means that the European Court of Human Rights might be more willing to intervene once a state has legalised gay marriages and therefore brought homosexuals and heterosexuals under the same umbrella of equalities protections.

You're argument is just an idiotic one. To get married in my church, I had to attend meetings with my vicar, 4, before she'd allow us to be married. I am guessing you are religious, and are as scared as the church are with this.

It's a sham, it's disgraceful, imo.

[Ketchup]

They should do what they do in other European countries. You can only legally be married in a registrary office.

What's next? The church being obliged to baptise unbelievers on the grounds of "non-discrimination"? The courts deciding who's a believer and who isn't?

It'll be an interesting societical change. Probably resulting in an overall lack of freedom.

I agree with this, make a wedding (or civil union), only legal if it is created in a registry office. The religious types can then have a ceremony in a church if required. At the moment there is too much pressure on getting married in a church, getting married in a registry office is seen as a cheap option, so non-religous people choose to get married in a church as it is the "done thing".

Plus this will take a lot of funding away from the churches, 2 birds and all that....

[Ketchup]

d00hg is clearly playing dumb for the attention, noone is that retarded

[d000hg]

No, this is the point you don't understand, it is a right under Human rights legislation. If the country allows same sex marriage, then they have to be treated equally as hetrosexual couples, based on both sexual discrimination and freedom of religious expression laws.

How can you not see it?

So then the church can refuse to marry them just as they can refuse to marry anyone else?

You stated a religious wedding was a human right, which suggests a church is forced to marry heterosexual people already. I dispute that.