Greenism in it's death throes

[gingerjedi]

There's more than one 'green' cause.

I'm happy to recycle (when economical) and conserve energy which is considered 'green', I also think AGW is a crock of tulip perpetuated by politicians to raise tax and cushion the public from using energy they cant or wont be able to afford.

Am I a lunatic greeny or a climate change heretic?

[Spacecadet]

Seems to me the whole thing can be simplified to make it easier for the average punter in the street to understand and hence become a decent marketing / comparison method. Carbon footprint / schmootprint.

If it's simplified then the solar panels might suddenly not look like such a good deal and they'd get even less sales.

Does it save me money that's all people are really interested in.

Question is, if Solar panels are supposed to be such a good investment then why does the uptake seem to be so slow? Why isn't every commercial building in the country adorned with green, money saving solar panels.
Seems that only the companies who are keen to push their "green" credentials bother with them.

[MarillionFan]

If it's simplified then the solar panels might suddenly not look like such a good deal and they'd get even less sales.




Question is, if Solar panels are supposed to be such a good investment then why does the uptake seem to be so slow? Why isn't every commercial building in the country adorned with green, money saving solar panels.
Seems that only the companies who are keen to push their "green" credentials bother with them.

I believe that the ROI is coming in at 5-7%, 12-20 years return on your investment. As the things last 20-25 years it seems that it's not a good return, hence the lack of 'visibility'.

With wholesale prices set to rise, new grants and the new feedback tariff to incorporate the ROI will reduce. Some energy companies are offering to install solar panels for free as long as they get some of the benefit on the tariff.

Concering commercial, a lot of new builds are having energy efficient systems/solar/air cons etc installed. LEAD accreditation for the build of new complexes is followed to make them energy efficient. I need to check what I was paying at the shop for electricity as the commerical rate was higher. I believe though that the feedback tariff only relates to home use.

[EternalOptimist]

The feed in tariff only applies to small scale home use, and it needs to be approved and certified (to prevent fraud)

All of the figures you quote above include the massive subsidies. It is a marginal decision whether to have these things installed WITH the subsidies.

If I were thinking of getting these things installed, I would be wondering what are the chances of these annual payments being withdrawn, because if they are, the ROI would leap from 10 years to about 150

oh. and dont even ask me about the breadcrumbs

[gingerjedi]

The feed in tariff only applies to small scale home use, and it needs to be approved and certified (to prevent fraud)

All of the figures you quote above include the massive subsidies. It is a marginal decision whether to have these things installed WITH the subsidies.

If I were thinking of getting these things installed, I would be wondering what are the chances of these annual payments being withdrawn, because if they are, the ROI would leap from 10 years to about 150

oh. and dont even ask me about the breadcrumbs

Necessity is a great driver, the figures don't add up yet.

A guy on R4 was saying the government is being advised to hold back on offshore wind as it's just too expensive, in 10 or 20 years time it might make more sense.

Let the Germans develop the tech, it looks as thought they'll have plenty of practice.

[d000hg]

I'm sure solar will get there, if people are investing in it then it's just a matter of time based on how everything else is moving so fast.

[EternalOptimist]

I'm sure solar will get there, if people are investing in it then it's just a matter of time based on how everything else is moving so fast.

again, this is what the greenies would have you believe.

Imagine you are a solar power manufacturer, you have a 20-30% efficient product with a 50% efficient model on the drawing board.

The bum models are selling because of the massive subsidies, not because they are any good. Would you spend multi millions putting the good model into production, for no additional gain ?

The greenies want it both ways, they buck the market by paying people to go solar, then wonder why the market doesnt produce the new improved technology

[landl]

And where does the food come from?
Viola...you've saved nothing.

Steady on! There's no need to bring the stringed instruments into it.

[OwlHoot]

again, this is what the greenies would have you believe.

Imagine you are a solar power manufacturer, you have a 20-30% efficient product with a 50% efficient model on the drawing board.

The bum models are selling because of the massive subsidies, not because they are any good. Would you spend multi millions putting the good model into production, for no additional gain ?

The greenies want it both ways, they buck the market by paying people to go solar, then wonder why the market doesnt produce the new improved technology

Complacency like that is why so many companies fold

If you have a 50% model on the drawing board then someone else probably has too, and maybe closer to production.

So your days selling 20% models are numbered anyway, and sooner rather than later some upstart will steal your lunch!

[BlasterBates]

Solar is a "fad" even George Monbiot thinks solar in a country where it's cloudy most of the time is nonsense. Wind power will also fail, wind farms are follies that contribute virtually nothing. The limit of wind power is limited by the amount "stupidity" that will be tolerated in wasting money. The only renewables that actually work are "Biomass" and Hydro. You won't get a great deal more percentage of power generation as renewable than you have at the moment. That's just a fact that'll be borne out. Of course politicians will then switch to "installed capacity" i.e. switched off wind generators and thousands of square miles of solar panels sitting under the dark gloomy UK skies, and keep quiet about the massive expansion of gas fired power stations.

It will be interesting to look back on in the years to come, what people will make of the generation that came after the one that put man (note ladies you haven't been there yet) on the moon.