Greenism in it's death throes

[Alf W]

Cheers. I understand the cost sides. It's the KWH bit that loses me. Reading up on the article at the weekend it was doing the whole calculation from KWH.

For example, the article I read earlier Sainsbury's pioneers revolutionary green energy kinetic plate system | Environment | guardian.co.uk talks about 30KWH generated per hour which it says powers their till system. I'm trying to get my head around what is generated. The house next door for example has 12 solar panels on it's roof. The other article I read at the weekend was about a guy who invented a car port with a solar panel on it's roof. He is trying to get outside car parks to install them. So for example, a 1500 bay open car park at somewhere like Legoland for example, would cost say £10k per port, but would generate ??? KWH which would calculate to X per KWH or would power Y houses?

Just trying to understand it. Gonna read up on it later.

CIS Tower in Manchester has about 4000 sq m of solar panels and generates around 180,000 KWH per year.

[EternalOptimist]

CIS Tower in Manchester has about 4000 sq m of solar panels and generates around 180,000 KWH per year.

Fantastic.

if they could store it and even it out, that would come to 20kw per hour

or £2 per hour.

[pjclarke]

300% error

The feed-in tariff for solar is 43p/KWh, so the CIS tower probably generates more like £74,000 a year from the sun.

The Co-Op, incidentally, is committed to carbon-neutrality by next year, and to getting a large proportion of it's energy from renewables. It runs a wind farm in Cambridgeshire which already delivers some 38Gwh / year, is building more and it helped finance the UK's first community-owned wind farm.

Something about Green death throes?

[TimberWolf]

The feed-in tariff for solar is 43p/KWh, so the CIS tower probably generates more like £74,000 a year from the sun.

The Co-Op, incidentally, is committed to carbon-neutrality by next year, and to getting a large proportion of it's energy from renewables. It runs a wind farm in Cambridgeshire which already delivers some 38Gwh / year, is building more and it helped finance the UK's first community-owned wind farm.

Something about Green death throes?

As far as my rather small supermarket surveys reveal, Tesco = evil and terrible service from people who often no speakie die English, whereas Co-op = great customer service, great staff, not evil.

[d000hg]

eh ??
how does it save money ? it's a blooming subsidy

It saves money for the ones who do it, I didn't claim it was sensible only worth pursuing. You'd better get yours up quick

[d000hg]

Leaving things on standby costs you money, it does not cost energy - another smokescreen from the greenies.

Can you explain that? If consumption is higher that means more energy is being converted into electrical form i.e. resources used faster, need for more power stations to meet the need, etc.

CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a trace gas that feeds plants. If there were no co2 there would be no life, co2 levels at the moment are very very low , the planet has survived much higher levels in the past. There are good arguments that increasing CO2 as we are is actually a brilliant move for life on earth.

"The planet" can survive an atmosphere of 100% CO2, and the levels that are most beneficial to creating life are intolerable to humans i.e. primordial soup and so on.
Even if we ignore the GW arguments totally, you don't want it building up in highly-developed areas since it is poisonous to us.

[EternalOptimist]

The feed-in tariff for solar is 43p/KWh, so the CIS tower probably generates more like £74,000 a year from the sun.

Absolute cobblers.
If you take the generation tariff out of the equation (the subsidy), and take just the export tariff, i.e. what you get paid for supplying the grid, it works out at 3p per kwh.

thats £5,400 per year

[EternalOptimist]

Can you explain that? If consumption is higher that means more energy is being converted into electrical form i.e. resources used faster, need for more power stations to meet the need, etc.

The explanation is simple, although not one the greenies will like to hear.

If you switch off all your appliances, turn the thermostat down, etc etc, you will save money on your energy bills. The energy consumption in your home will go down.
Now what will you do with all that lovely extra money ?
get a new car ?
new fridge ?
new sofa ?


most of the things that you buy will have been made in a smokey factory in China that is powered by a dirty coal burning power station, then shipped over here in oil burning container ships, then driven to your home in a big diesel truck.

save the planet, leave the telly on standby

[d000hg]

I already have all those nasty plastic things, and even if I didn't I'd get better ones with more money not buy more of the things. Personally, extra money is more likely to go on eating in restaurants.

Also, the coal we're burning for standby appliances has to be shipped here on those big dirty ships too.

Interesting argument for the sake of the discussion but not very convincing.

[BlasterBates]

I already have all those nasty plastic things, and even if I didn't I'd get better ones with more money not buy more of the things. Personally, extra money is more likely to go on eating in restaurants.

Also, the coal we're burning for standby appliances has to be shipped here on those big dirty ships too.

Interesting argument for the sake of the discussion but not very convincing.

And where does the food come from?

You're eating fish right? Well a boat has to go out in the ocean using diesel fuel. The fish then get processed in factory, consuming energy fossil fuels. The fish get frozen and transported, again using energy mainly from fossil fuel power stations.

Then you drive to the restaurant, the restaurant is heated, probably has a bit of music on the hi-fi.

Viola...you've saved nothing.

EO is quite right, either you sit in a cave and twidlle your thumbs or you consume fossil fuels, and if we all stopped consuming the world economy collapses driving people into grinding poverty. This is the fallacy of the green dream, it is entirely impractical. An economist pointed out in a recent talk show, in spite of all the massive investment in green energy, the burning of fossil fuels continues unabated, if it was working the oil wells and the coal mines would be winding down. It aint goin't to happen.