Get your brit card

[malvolio]

I imagine a large proportion of the business owners/employers are here legally (British citizens or naturalized).

But I guess "British firms illegally exploiting foreign workers" doesn't sound as good as "Illegal immigrants taking our jobs".

OTOH, if there wasn't a ready market for people to earn money before they get to be eligible for benefits and housing, they wouldn't be in such a rush to get here...

As usual, we must always remember the difference between people genuinely fleeing oppression and those out for a free lunch. WE can't really help the first group until we can stop the second.

[ladymuck]

The problem is that the majority of people/companies do things the right way, but there's enough of those willing not to that it needs 'something' done about it.

Imprisoning people who employ trafficked / illegal workers could be a start. Fines can be dodged.

I also think that people awaiting a decision regarding whether they can stay here or not should be allowed to work. If it's going to take more than 3 months to decide their case, let them get a job. If they end up in illegal employment, after being told what legal employment looks like, then their application is denied and their employer imprisoned.

[woody1]

OTOH, if there wasn't a ready market for people to earn money before they get to be eligible for benefits and housing, they wouldn't be in such a rush to get here...

Is that why they come here? Because we're seen as more of a pushover than other European countries? Actually, is it really true that more choose here over other countries, or does it just seem like that because of the boats?

Maybe they've been fed a myth of what the country is like? Failing to mention the crap weather and economic decline.

Having the world's most spoken second language must be a major draw.

[hobnob]

Actually, is it really true that more choose here over other countries, or does it just seem like that because of the boats?

There's a document here:
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...03/SN01403.pdf
The relevant section is 4.1 (pp31-33)

[Smartie]

There's a document here:
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...03/SN01403.pdf
The relevant section is 4.1 (pp31-33)

However, when we were in the EU we had the right (though little used apparently) to send anyone back that had already made an asylum application in the EU.
Now we can't and they may already have made applications elsewhere in the EU.
The graph tells you about applications, not where people ultimately settle.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Who are these people who are working without a right to work? Presumably they won't even have a national insurance number?

What comes to mind are people who have been trafficked, modern slavery, sex workers, maids. Employers, if you can even call them that, won't give a flying toss about ID cards. They're already breaking the law (minimum wage, PAYE, NI).

Lisa Nandy showed she knows nothing about this area by making a similar comment about NI numbers.

You can work and get paid entirely legally without an NI number - it's not in your interest but it is possible.

You can also have an NI number and no right to work.

NI numbers aren't related (directly) to right to work.

I agree 100% about the fact that dodgy employers won't care.

People aren't working illegally due to a lack of ID, they are doing it because there is no enforcement.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Is that why they come here? Because we're seen as more of a pushover than other European countries? Actually, is it really true that more choose here over other countries, or does it just seem like that because of the boats?

Maybe they've been fed a myth of what the country is like? Failing to mention the crap weather and economic decline.

Having the world's most spoken second language must be a major draw.

I reckon the combination of almost zero enforcement of, well anything actually, the language and a level of tolerance is what drives people to come.

Also, as much as some people fail to recognise it, even tulip food and accommodation is a better bet than the "you're on your own pal" in the tulipholes they came from.

Once you are here - it's a sort of possession is 9/10ths situation as you'd be extremely unlucky to have to leave.

[NotAllThere]

However, when we were in the EU we had the right (though little used apparently) to send anyone back that had already made an asylum application in the EU.
Now we can't and they may already have made applications elsewhere in the EU.
The graph tells you about applications, not where people ultimately settle.

Absolute numbers in 2024
Total: 1,037,500

Germany: 229,700
Spain: 164,000
Italy: 151,100
France: 130,900
UK: 108,100

So even if all 108,100 originally registered elsewhere, that's still leaves 929,400 in the EU countries.

[Smartie]

Absolute numbers in 2024
Total: 1,037,500

Germany: 229,700
Spain: 164,000
Italy: 151,100
France: 130,900
UK: 108,100

So even if all 108,100 originally registered elsewhere, that's still leaves 929,400 in the EU countries.

After considering the initial applications/settlements, we should then think about family imports.
The UK is tightening that up now, but it's been (apparently) easily possible for one asylum seeker to bring in another half dozen relatives fairly quickly once accepted.
Is that the same in other countries?

Just to note, not restricting this to asylum seekers which is only about 5% of migrants.

[sadkingbilly]

so what, if anything, are all these stats saying?
we need an ID card or not??
we WANT an ID card or not?
an ID card is a waste of time or not?

it's like scooty's wiggly lines thread FFS.