Reply to: Get your brit card

[NotAllThere]

you can get an Android phone for £69:...
You can then combine that with a £10 "pay as you go" SIM, i.e. no monthly contract,..

On top of the cost of getting your ID of course.

I've lived with an ID card now for over twenty years, it's just really handy to have one thing to prove your identity. However, unlike UK goverment plans, here you can be required to prove your identity, though you don't have to carry your id with you.

The UK government has said anyone without a smartphone will be able to have a physical card which will be free.
https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a...-safe-13438549

Weirdly, the above article says you won't be required to show your card. So looks li

[Paddy]

I think the average take-away, restaurant or builder's gang would be easily fooled by a Photoshop fake.

[sadkingbilly]

The phone that I mentioned before is 4G, and I think that would apply to any new phone that's been sold in the past few years. Bear in mind that 2G and 3G are being discontinued at network level:
3G and 2G switch-off - Ofcom

There's a wider question of how this hypothetical app will work, and the short answer is that we don't know yet. However, it's entirely possible that the phone won't need an active internet connection at all (when you're showing your ID). A couple of other options:
* It might use NFC (Near Field Communication), the same way that you can use a phone for contactless payment.
* When I use the FirstBus app, it displays an animated QR code, and the ticket machine on the bus scans that code.

I.e. the scanner will need internet access, and the phone will need internet access when you set up the app, but that could use a wireless network (at home) rather than a mobile data network.

all that palaver, and the 'phone's effectively a passive lump displaying an ID card?
just have a smart card, ffs.

[hobnob]

affordable, maybe, although they change net specs often in order to render handsets obsolete, so they can flog new ones.
and will it work on a 2G phone?? i doubt it*

The phone that I mentioned before is 4G, and I think that would apply to any new phone that's been sold in the past few years. Bear in mind that 2G and 3G are being discontinued at network level:
3G and 2G switch-off - Ofcom

There's a wider question of how this hypothetical app will work, and the short answer is that we don't know yet. However, it's entirely possible that the phone won't need an active internet connection at all (when you're showing your ID). A couple of other options:
* It might use NFC (Near Field Communication), the same way that you can use a phone for contactless payment.
* When I use the FirstBus app, it displays an animated QR code, and the ticket machine on the bus scans that code.

I.e. the scanner will need internet access, and the phone will need internet access when you set up the app, but that could use a wireless network (at home) rather than a mobile data network.

[sadkingbilly]

I don't have a major objection to an ID card, it's just that I doubt it will achieve what Starmer is saying it will (are people hiring illegally really going to take any notice of it?) and I fear a serious degree of scope creep. Won't happen for at least five years, so the next government will probably kill it anyway.

Given Labour's historical connections it will likely go to Oracle...

I have to agree, no amount of legislation will ever stop the black economy.
there are ways to avoid anything, if you put enough effort in.
It's the kind of thing Farage/Trump/Putin/any other proponent of police states likes though.

[malvolio]

I don't have a major objection to an ID card, it's just that I doubt it will achieve what Starmer is saying it will (are people hiring illegally really going to take any notice of it?) and I fear a serious degree of scope creep. Won't happen for at least five years, so the next government will probably kill it anyway.

Given Labour's historical connections it will likely go to Oracle...

[sadkingbilly]

I sympathise with the first point, and I'd prefer it if people could choose between physical and/or digital ID cards.

Regarding the cost, I think you're exaggerating. E.g. I had my first iPhone for 6 years before I replaced it, and that was only because Apple had stopped releasing updates for the old hardware. If you don't care about having the latest model, there's no need to be on a 2 year cycle. Looking at the GiffGaff website, you can get an Android phone for £69:
Motorola moto e15 | Pay Monthly or Buy Now | giffgaff
You can then combine that with a £10 "pay as you go" SIM, i.e. no monthly contract, and you won't need to top it up very often if you don't make any calls or download much data. So, that should be affordable for most people.

affordable, maybe, although they change net specs often in order to render handsets obsolete, so they can flog new ones.
and will it work on a 2G phone?? i doubt it*

lots of people find smartphones impenetrable, and would rather not have to deal with them.
What's wrong with an ID card??
most of Europe's had them for decades.

*mind you, if the usual backhanders go into the procurement, it won't work on anything.

[hobnob]

and what about the people who don't have/or want, a smartphone?
why should people be forced to spend £800 every two years for the privilege of running one feckin app??

I sympathise with the first point, and I'd prefer it if people could choose between physical and/or digital ID cards.

Regarding the cost, I think you're exaggerating. E.g. I had my first iPhone for 6 years before I replaced it, and that was only because Apple had stopped releasing updates for the old hardware. If you don't care about having the latest model, there's no need to be on a 2 year cycle. Looking at the GiffGaff website, you can get an Android phone for £69:
Motorola moto e15 | Pay Monthly or Buy Now | giffgaff
You can then combine that with a £10 "pay as you go" SIM, i.e. no monthly contract, and you won't need to top it up very often if you don't make any calls or download much data. So, that should be affordable for most people.

[sadkingbilly]

and what about the people who don't have/or want, a smartphone?
why should people be forced to spend £800 every two years for the privilege of running one feckin app??

[tazdevil]

Rumour has it that neither Fujitsu or Crapita will get the Britcard gig but Metaverse, run by Euan son of Tony Blair the guy who's rumoured to want to run the interim Gazan government after Hamas so that all the aid money can be properly managed

[SueEllen]

Countries all over the world use ID cards without issues. France used to be so bad that you still needed two other forms of ID to open a bank account, but additional security measures have changed that.

Electronic IDs work fine in Estonia. Despite Soviet (yes I do mean that) hacking attempts. In Switzerland we're voting on it this weekend. Expectation is that it'll be a yes. There's no reason it can't work in the UK - beyond civil service incompentence of course.

I've found it very useful for access government services. Lost passport? Go to the airport, show ID, new temporary passport 30 minutes later (and £150 lighter). I've only been asked for ID once by the police and that was as a witness to an accident.

Probably best if the UK goes to physical IDs first though. Not obligatory, and you'll have to pay.

Right so we need to pay the Estonians to implement it

Unfortunately it will go to a US company and be hacked by teenagers pretending to be recently dead people with money.

[NotAllThere]

Countries all over the world use ID cards without issues. France used to be so bad that you still needed two other forms of ID to open a bank account, but additional security measures have changed that.

Electronic IDs work fine in Estonia. Despite Soviet (yes I do mean that) hacking attempts. In Switzerland we're voting on it this weekend. Expectation is that it'll be a yes. There's no reason it can't work in the UK - beyond civil service incompentence of course.

I've found it very useful for access government services. Lost passport? Go to the airport, show ID, new temporary passport 30 minutes later (and £150 lighter). I've only been asked for ID once by the police and that was as a witness to an accident.

Probably best if the UK goes to physical IDs first though. Not obligatory, and you'll have to pay.

[tazdevil]

GOV.UK One .

It's getting quite onerous all this security BS, but to run a company now requires multiple such accounts and you'll need one now, with knobs on, to use Companies House and be a director. Like everything else it isn't going to enhance security or safety in any way, in fact the opposite will happen.

[Protagoras]

I recently needed to update records with DVLA and attempting to this online required an account with something called "GOV.UK One Login". After setting this up - which required the use of a mobile app - I found that in fact it didn't integrate to allow the changes I need to make and I had to use their 'old' process (still on-line, very clunky legacy interface).

I removed the GOV.UK One Login App and have deleted the account.

I simply don't trust Gov to implement anything that's secure and / or actually works.

I'm not against some form of ID, but it would need to be physical - not something requiring a phone - and would need to be issued without charge. The reality is that most of us will at some point probably not have a driving licence or passport and therefore need some sort of ID.

In return for having an ID card, perhaps we should demand a Bill of Rights.

[tazdevil]

I'm concerned the contract to design and implement will end up with Fujitsu or Crapita. It could be done quite simply if HMG (or its civil service masters) had the balls to choose a consortium of SME's.

It'll definitely go to the current favourite outsource group and be subject to buggy implementation and cost overruns and future scandals, no doubt about it.