Indian Visa Scheme and IR35

[xoggoth]

Interesting that the right wing DE, which one would expect to be opposed to it, has a favourable response to the deal. Maybe it's not so bad.

Labour has finally got something RIGHT – so why is everyone moaning? | Personal Finance | Finance | Express.co.uk

[Bluenose]

Interesting that the right wing DE, which one would expect to be opposed to it, has a favourable response to the deal. Maybe it's not so bad.

Labour has finally got something RIGHT – so why is everyone moaning? | Personal Finance | Finance | Express.co.uk

Its readership are not employed and are mostly ´economically inactive´.

[xoggoth]

Its readership are not employed and are mostly ´economically inactive

Us old farts you mean. Yer probably right.

[dsc]

by my reckoning that means Tata, Wipro et al can undercut any other consultancy co by a minimum of around 10% on deal pricing. On top of that with the reduction in rates (project/deal cost) certainly on the commercial side that the PE sector is driving on PS it probably means more work sent back to India too to drive the cost even lower. By my reckoning this is the beginning of the end of the traditional PS models and one of many nails in the tradtional contracting coffin and there have been a few of those over the years.

Yup that is what I meant, even if it doesn't wipe out "local" consultancies, it will drive rates down. Someone somewhere will make a lot of money, but it won't be us.

Maybe it's time to set up shop in India?

[courtg9000]

Yup that is what I meant, even if it doesn't wipe out "local" consultancies, it will drive rates down. Someone somewhere will make a lot of money, but it won't be us.

Maybe it's time to set up shop in India?

I Posted this a while back on another thread about a Sunday lunch I had:

"I had a rather pleasant roast lunch with all the trimmings and some very good booze today with a recruiter and old friend who places commercial side consultants with PE houses (sub contracted to work on projects for them at their clients in some cases) , Big 4 and lower consultancies. Some niche some not so niche.
The PE boys are going in hard and tough on rates.
£1250/day top whack for former Big 4 senior partner level bods. Very niche consultant level might get £800 if no one else has the skills within the availability window and they pitch very well. A lot less generally for consultant grade. They want analyst/junior level at sub £300 to the agency.
This stuff is more than likely to be more inside than an inside thing. The very tight D&C and micro management will kill off anything else that might help a status determination of outside, just trust me on this.
He told me perm salaries are going the same way. The days of an ex big 4 partner being able to make anywhere near their annual cut elsewhere are fading fast and the all the players in the market are cutting partner level roles heavily. Lots of meetings without coffee with HR!
He said he thinks that the rates have a bit further to fall. He wouldn't be drawn on a number.
He said he was considering taking payroll in house.
He also said I was best off in retirement!!!"

And this as a response to a further comment:
"What you have to look at is the control the PE boys are exerting on their investments. It looks a little like this:

PE INVESTED Company: "We want £20 Million for this project".

PE HOUSE INVESTMENT DIRECTOR: "Ok, no problemo, but I will own and run the project".

PE Investment Director then goes off and recruits someone to run the delivery team (or gets his investment manager or investment analyst to ring round the favoured recruiters).

So PE has the power. They are deciding the rates for their projects and they do not want to pay huge amounts. They also do not want to hand projects over to consultancy firms if they can help it these days.
That £20 mil is most likely financed by additional debt that the PE house is responsible for so the thumb screws will be out on force."


Now although its not about IT contractors succinctly its a similar market. The PE guys are seriously cracking down on costs. The minimum 10% on deal value that they can now get with this India deal can give further savings to the PE boys if carried down the line. Offshore the lot perhaps with a little token onshore. It makes sense on a spreadsheet. About the only place this sort of thing on say a £10+ mil project makes any real sense but hey ho. A PE guy will be bonused on his spreadsheet!

[GJABS]

As I understand it, under the new visa scheme, Indian nationals will be exempt from both Employer's and Employee's NI for three years.

Would they not, though, be liable for the Indian equivalent to NI?

[sadkingbilly]

PE houses
PE boys
PE boys
PE INVESTED Company: "We want £20 Million for this project".

PE HOUSE INVESTMENT DIRECTOR: "Ok, no problemo, but I will own and run the project".

PE Investment Director then goes off and recruits someone to run the delivery team (or gets his investment manager or investment analyst to ring round the favoured recruiters).

So PE has the power. !

WTF is 'PE'???

[courtg9000]

WTF is 'PE'???

Private Equity

[sadkingbilly]

Private Equity

and they use IT engineers? what for?

[courtg9000]

and they use IT engineers? what for?

They get what ever resources they want for what ever they have on the go. Remember, they now are owning the project quite possibly for YOUR client. Quite possible also that your client recruits you for them and pays the time sheet and your client on the contract but you report to them.
I gather is quite a bit going on in Retail IT in the UK at the moment using this model!
The PE firms will usually finance the large projects on additional debt.
They are not particularly keen these days on completely hiving off projects to say Accenture/HP/Anyone else, preferring to recruit a PM and contractors but they will NOT pay big rates at all for anything. They are pressuring the rates down. Expect any contract to be well inside IR35 especially on SDC. Micromanagement is the word.

So to answer your question as to what they use IT engineers for, it could be anything from SAP or python for example to a USB nose picking device!