Stop sending CV's, you're not a permie.

[saptastic]

We aren't permies but it is permies that are reading them. With any communication the key is to think about your audience. If a CV is the standard format they understand then carry on sending them. If your new idea (that no one has ever thought of before of course) hit someone drone that doesn't understand what you are doing then you are actually putting a blocker in the way.

If you have the right skills you could send it in on toilet paper and still get the gig. I'd say don't go round thinking you are king dick just because this method worked. It's likely you'll have got the gig whatever so it isn't your amazing new idea that has made a difference...

But that said, this is just another 'look at me, see how good I am' thread so no point having any discussion around it. Well done, you are the best.

I disagree - in my experience so many people with great skills send a poorly formatted & over written CV that lazy recruiters or employers just ignore. CV is the biggest sales tool you have but often people just expect to get a gig cos of the contract "exactly matches my experience"

[northernladuk]

Are you really discounting the concept of sending a highly tailored pitch to win a professional services consulting piece of work? lol

A three page powerpoint is a highly tailored pitch? Jog on.

So I should send a "standard format" to win the work?

You should send the format that is most likely goint to work for your audience. If that person is geneally accustomed to reading CVs, that have been universally accepted for christ knows how long, than that would generally be a safe option. Pushing the boundaries is making assumptions that could has a negative effect in some cases.

TO be honest, I don't really know what you mean by this,. I'm not sure why your audience is permies that only understand CVs? You're best targeting the real economic buyer, or a key influencer of the buyer, with a targeted sales pitch. If you're an inside IR35 bum on seat kind of contractor, I can understand why you'd shoot off a generic permie style CV to a faceless HR person.

Problem here is that you clearly work at a much higher and more important level that 99% of contractors. Their target is the client manager that has the requirement and has already had budget cleared. The problem here is you are attempting to be all high and mighty to a bunch of people that generally what you say at the end which kinda makes you look clueless and an arrogant bum hole. Those that work in your circles know what to do, those of us that don't also know what to do so really don't know why you bothered posting this tripe.

If you're a legitimate outside IR35 vendor/consultant, this is not the way, especially in a bear market. This is evidenced by the sheer number of out of work contractors on this board. There may well be less roles, that just means you have to get more professional around how you sell yourself and your services.

There are very very few of those on here and all the out of work contractors are inbetween gigs like everyone generally is at some point for one reason or another. Some will be struggling because the are new or crap I'll give you that but taking every post from a contractor looking for work (which is our job really) and labelling them as poor quality because they are out of work is arrogant beyond words.

You've contradicted yourself.

In a bull market, anyone can get a contract. In a bear market, you have to work harder on business development and sales. We are supposed to be independent vendors aren't we?

We are but we fulfill a need. We don't need to pretend to be something we aren't. Many of us have had a very good career taking what you'd consider bottom feeder roles. I'm probably one of them although in 15 years I've only done 6 weeks inside but I'm fully expecting to be inside a lot more, through no fault of my own, my skills or my sales pitch. It's just life and I'm quite happy with it. So if sending CV's to faceless HR (since when did HR deal with contractors though) works, which it does very well, then I'll carry on.

Problem with people like you that lord it over everyone else, think theirs is the only way and all the rest is that you make yourself look like a dick. People that are really good just get on with it. The few that feel the need to constantly push it in other peoples face are very rarely as good as they say.

[DrewG]

I disagree - in my experience so many people with great skills send a poorly formatted & over written CV that lazy recruiters or employers just ignore. CV is the biggest sales tool you have but often people just expect to get a gig cos of the contract "exactly matches my experience"

A traditional CV is for permies and INSIDE contractors.

Making your CV IR35-proof: what contractors must do now, and by April 2020 (contractoruk.com)

[northernladuk]

I disagree - in my experience so many people with great skills send a poorly formatted & over written CV that lazy recruiters or employers just ignore. CV is the biggest sales tool you have but often people just expect to get a gig cos of the contract "exactly matches my experience"

It was an over emphasised point with nuances rather than a factual comment but I still stand by it. I'm talking about the person that's going to get the job anyway, right skills, right experience for client etc. If they sent it on heavy posh paper, powerpoint or toilet paper they'll get it. He's lording it over everyone his powerpoint got him the gig but he could have got it just from the one page with his CV on it if you get me.

I don't see anything wrong with expecting to get a gig because it exactly matches my experience. That's generally the person they pick and if it doesn't match your skills you won't have a chance.

Was a silly point i made so not really worth discussion. I'd imagine we both think the same if we disected it.

[quackhandle]

qh

[dsc]

Don't misunderstand. I worded it like that for the non-thinking person to understand.

It's common to include some information on the resources that are staffing a project. This is common practice within any professional services firm. It's not the consultants bio that wins the work though, it's the pitch. The bio (or multiple bios) at the end of the pitch, add a final layer of credibility. There is no way anyone would consider the last slide to be a CV, it's nowhere near as comprehensive.

I'm scratching my head as to why people on this board, supposed independent professionals, are discounting the idea of highly targeted sales pitches sent to the economic buyer?

Professional services includes business development and sales as well as delivery. I appreciate delivery is the comfort zone for most people here but you're really going to laugh at a discussion on getting clients when people are starving?

Why do you assume that someone who does something differently to you is non-thinking? clearly it worked for them in the past, hence why they keep doing it. Everyone's got a different set of circumstances, your approach might work for them, or not, maybe try to get that in your head before judging others.

Also, are you selling a service of making bespoke job applications for people? Cause I don't really understand the point of your post. Do you want a pat on the back? do you feel like you've discovered something extraordinary?

Another also, no one is bloody starving, there's tulip ton of people here who've earned millions over the years, it's not a food-bank club where you have £20 to last you a month.

[TheDude]

Problem with people like you that lord it over everyone else, think theirs is the only way and all the rest is that you make yourself look like a dick. People that are really good just get on with it. The few that feel the need to constantly push it in other peoples face are very rarely as good as they say.

Agreed.

In my game braggarts don't last long and they are usually weeded out in the interview process.

[northernladuk]

A traditional CV is for permies and INSIDE contractors.

Making your CV IR35-proof: what contractors must do now, and by April 2020 (contractoruk.com)

I've been to these and I must admit I thought it was pretty crap (no disrepect Matt). It's company selling their vision which doesn't go to say the world is how they see it. I didn't rate anything that was said. It was just more of that new thing on Linkedin where resourcers titles are now 'Helping businesses get the best talent' or whatever.

That webinar and site talks about the contractors changing the CV's but does not address the people that reading them. Changing the medium and not the audience doesn't always work.

Sometimes old works... it always has and still does. One pillock like yourself isn't going to change that.

[vwdan]

northernladuk is bob on here. When I first got into contracting, uh, 10 years ago (WTF?), I tried so hard to differentiate myself from permies with all sorts of different "CV" formats. Projects based, job based but around my PSC, marketing style docs and so on, including many of the recommendations int he link from DrewG.

But after the millionth conversation where I had to spend 10 minutes explaining to a recruiter what I did, and for who, or they just straight up asked me to fill in all the gaps ("Please provide your recent job history" etc) I eventually gave in and moved back to a traditional CV format.

And this isn't inside, permietractor gigs - this was almost always short term, 6 week - 6 month, get in, get out project work with clear SoWs and Deliverables etc.

Fact is, people barely understand contractors at the best of times, and making the hurdle even harder does you no favours. Recruiters and hiring managers (And yes, it's a hiring manager hiring you, not a procurement manager, and you full well know it) have a CV 'model' in their head, and the more deviate from it the harder it becomes for them to parse and compare you with others.

It's not a hill I'm willing to die on, not that it really matters now anyway, but nontheless - powerpoint presentations, do me a favour.

Edit to say: I wrote this before NLUK responded, we posted at the same time. His response is also spot on.

Oh, also, your powerpoint sounds absolutely gash anyway Drew. Sounds like something I'd have put together in college.

[DrewG]

A three page powerpoint is a highly tailored pitch? Jog on.

Don't conflate the length of a doc with how targeted it is. The only information I have is from the spec and the recruiter so it wouldn't be appropriate to waffle on beyond a few pages.

6 multiple page CV's (likely too long) that list everything you'v ever done VS three pages that talk specifically about how to address the business problems listed in your spec. Which one is winning?

As to the rest of your points, it sounds like you're saying most people here are happy with the feast or famine status quo. That's fine for you to say, but there may well be others that want to elevate their game beyond 'bums on seats' style contracting.