Truss Out!

[NotAllThere]

You are kidding. You expect the UK civil service to come up with a working model of government that's efficient, and for any government to put it in place in less than a few hundred years?

Nope. It doesn't mean it isn't possible.

If you consider an elective oligarchy a democracy, then yes you do live in one.

[vetran]

They've got a facist coalition. It's a dream for some in the UK.

Well some in the UK adore communism to be fair they are more efficient at killing the innocents than your average fascist set up.

[WTFH]

Well some in the UK adore communism to be fair they are more efficient at killing the innocents than your average fascist set up.

If the argument to support fascists is that anyone who isn’t a fascist must be a communist and far more evil, you are seriously screwed up.

[vetran]

If the argument to support fascists is that anyone who isn’t a fascist must be a communist and far more evil, you are seriously screwed up.

if the argument is anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist then you look like a feckwit.

[Smartie]

under most systems in use now, minority parties can have a disproportionate say in policy decisions.

And the other flaw in PR is that it requires an educated electorate making rational decisions. Good luck with that one.

Parties with minority support are always elected in the UK - the other 60-70%+ are excluded from any influence between elections - that's not democracy.

In many UK areas - 'safe' seats, you could elect the animal of your choice as the candidate for the relevant political party. Supporters of the minority parties in those areas have zero influence and might as well not bother voting.

Grown up countries manage compromise between multiple parties well enough and if people vote Green or BNP for that matter, they get some influence under proportional representation, unlike our swing between two ideologies system which wreaks havoc with essential long term planning.

Incidentally, democracy doesn't require an intelligent or educated population. Personally I'm in favour of a benevolent dictatorship, but the problem is always finding the benevolent ones, and even more difficult the ones who come afterwards.

[malvolio]

Parties with minority support are always elected in the UK - the other 60-70%+ are excluded from any influence between elections - that's not democracy.

So let's extend that a little bit. If various commentators are to be believed and their predictions come true, a likely outcome of the next election is a coalition - official or otherwise - of Labour, LD and SNP as the majority government. that will hold together as long as the smaller parties go with the main one's policies but will demand reciprocal support for their own policies. So taken to the extreme, we could see the United Kingdom broken up because 51% of 65% of the supporters of a party with 10% of the seats have been allowed to succeed in their aims. And that is democracy?

In many UK areas - 'safe' seats, you could elect the animal of your choice as the candidate for the relevant political party. Supporters of the minority parties in those areas have zero influence and might as well not bother voting.

And that is actual democracy. It's the will of the majority that prevails. Nobody has a right to be elected, it's up to them to persuade people they should be.*

Grown up countries manage compromise between multiple parties well enough and if people vote Green or BNP for that matter, they get some influence under proportional representation, unlike our swing between two ideologies system which wreaks havoc with essential long term planning.

We've been a pretty stable country for over a thousand years, and a properly united parliamentary democracy for about 450 years. I think we count as "grown up". Long term planning is blighted by a politicised civil service (can't quite recall who to blame for that one...) ignoring the general will of government in favour of their own agenda and politicians who can only see as far as the next election in case they have to go out and get a real job.

Incidentally, democracy doesn't require an intelligent or educated population. Personally I'm in favour of a benevolent dictatorship, but the problem is always finding the benevolent ones, and even more difficult the ones who come afterwards.

So you don't believe in democracy at all. So why are you arguing?



* On that point our sitting MP is a total waste of air, an overweight tory buffoon with a ministerial position who flatly refuses to engage with the constituency in any real way. His main opponent is a Lib Dem who is a total PITA in many ways but has proven to be committed to the welfare of that constituency. But since the 50s, with one brief interlude, we have had a tory MP. Go figure.

[WTFH]

if the argument is anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist then you look like a feckwit.

I never said that. Go back to what I said.

https://www.repubblica.it/politica/2...smo-360551274/
https://time.com/6216624/italy-elect...iorgia-meloni/
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/ho...ntrunner-60141
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/29/yes...ashioned-kind/
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...solini/671515/