Truss Out!

[d000hg]

They've got a facist coalition. It's a dream for some in the UK.

A coalition which includes some from a fascist background.

[malvolio]

Well, malvolio considers the UK too small to federalise, so Switzerland must be fighting way aboves its weight!

However, the UK is not a group of independent nation states brought together in the last 200 years or so, unlike Switzerland, Germany, Italy and half a dozen others.

We already have four nominally independent groupings now, what would you put in their place?

[vetran]

However, the UK is not a group of independent nation states brought together in the last 200 years or so, unlike Switzerland, Germany, Italy and half a dozen others.

We already have four nominally independent groupings now, what would you put in their place?

We weren't fascists or the Fascists bankers either.

[SueEllen]

However, the UK is not a group of independent nation states brought together in the last 200 years or so, unlike Switzerland, Germany, Italy and half a dozen others.

We already have four nominally independent groupings now, what would you put in their place?

That's for Labour to work out, and us to say "Yep" or "Nope".


(Don't give them ideas however stupid)

[NotAllThere]

However, the UK is not a group of independent nation states brought together in the last 200 years or so, unlike Switzerland, Germany, Italy and half a dozen others.

We already have four nominally independent groupings now, what would you put in their place?

Still nothing to do with your comment that the UK is too small to federalise.

Fun piece here about why regional government will never happen.

[malvolio]

Still nothing to do with your comment that the UK is too small to federalise.

It's quite a lot to do with it. We don't have areas in England that have been properly independent for around a thousand years, so have no basis for having an independent existence. Wales remains a Principality, annexed by Henry V, Scotland actually took over the English throne in 1603 and formed the Union in 1707. Cornwall, Wessex, Northumbria, Mercia, all the rest have long gone.

You may not have noticed but Local Authorities have control over local budgets including any locally generated income from business, tourism and the like, and even have limited tax raising powers within the overall national regime. They can even impose local rules inside the overall legal framework.

So what, exactly, would federalisation provide that doesn't already exist, other than making our taxation and leal systems even more horrendously complex and adding yet another no doubt expensive layer of government to the pot? To put it another way, what is it you are trying to repair?

[NotAllThere]

So what, exactly, would federalisation provide that doesn't already exist

According to the above snippet, perhaps more efficient and effective goverment and real democray.

other than making our taxation and leal systems even more horrendously complex and adding yet another no doubt expensive layer of government to the pot?

That's how it would work in Britain most likely - but it's not inevitable. It's possible to have, e.g. three layers of government each with their own tax raising powers and it be more efficient and simpler that the UK tax system.

[malvolio]

According to the above snippet, perhaps more efficient and effective goverment and real democray.

Not a cat in hell's chance, until you work out how to get career politicians out of the process.

That's how it would work in Britain most likely - but it's not inevitable. It's possible to have, e.g. three layers of government each with their own tax raising powers and it be more efficient and simpler that the UK tax system.

You are kidding. You expect the UK civil service to come up with a working model of government that's efficient, and for any government to put it in place in less than a few hundred years?

We have real democracy now, it's just that you don't like the model we use and believe that it is not democratic. We could of course switch to a PR system such as STV or appoint MPs proportionately to national party votes or some other process, but that would not lead to better democracy; under most systems in use now, minority parties can have a disproportionate say in policy decisions.

And the other flaw in PR is that it requires an educated electorate making rational decisions. Good luck with that one.

[WTFH]

We have real democracy now...

If we have a real democracy now, with constituencies being roughly of equal size, why have the 2013 and 2018 reviews been scrapped, along with the 2011 plan to reduce the number of MPs to 600 and make population size the primary rule.
And then we have a fixed term parliament act (2011) which was repealed a few months ago, because the current government had sunk so far that it needed to re-write democracy rules to suit its position.

[SueEllen]

You are kidding. You expect the UK civil service to come up with a working model of government that's efficient, and for any government to put it in place in less than a few hundred years?
.

Labour are doing their review without the use of the Civil Service. (Don't know what the UK Civil Service is)