Truss Out!

[malvolio]

That's what is being investigated.

It will mean legal changes but the aim would be to stop Scottish independence, stop an united Ireland, shut up any Welsh people demanding their own independence and shut up any people in Cornwall, Yorkshire or any random English region demanding self-determination for their little area.

That is not federation. That is unification. If you want the devolved parliaments removed and all power pulled back to the UK (not English) parliament, then go ahead.

The Welsh don't want to be independent. That they got a devolved Parliament was because of a tiny margin, and that mostly from Carmarthenshire who always think they are more Welsh than anyone else (they aren't, and I'm from Pembrokeshire).

The Northern Irish don't want independence, theirs is a fight between staying in the UK and unifying Ireland, and that in turn is mostly driven by the South and people still fighting a war that was decided 300 years ago.

Scotland can have independence any time they want in all but name. All they need to do is elect a Parliament of their own that's interested in governing rather than supporting a succession of single issue fanatics. And, of course, giving up the money the rest of the UK is subsidising them with an dpaying their own way. No need to leave the Union.

[NotAllThere]

How do you federate a single nation?

Split it into regions, giving each reason a certain amount of autonomy, including tax raising powers. Retain certain powers with the federal government - currency, national infrastructure, army etc.

[malvolio]

Split it into regions, giving each reason a certain amount of autonomy, including tax raising powers. Retain certain powers with the federal government - currency, national infrastructure, army etc.

Like we have now you mean?

Unworkable. No single region could rsise enough income. We're not big enough.

[vetran]

You have a very myopic view mate. But we're all entitled to our view so good on you. I just don't agree.

Why short sighted? Using a fancy word doesn't give you the moral high ground.

If they want independence the route is clear, convince the country they need to hold a referendum and get sufficient votes to leave. This can be done now or in a million years.

To get sufficient votes to leave then run the country well enough within their powers to convince people you would run it ok after independence.

That doesn't seem to be happening. Not my fault they can't get their stuff together. It would be nice if they stopped whining about it though and I didn't have to pay for their incompetence & graft that does go for most politicians though.

[SueEllen]

Like we have now you mean?

Nope we don't have federation.

Unworkable. No single region could rsise enough income. We're not big enough.

That's what colonists and communist leaders thought in the 20th Century. They were proved wrong.

[malvolio]

Nope we don't have federation.

We don't have (or need) federation, we are a single nation state. And have been since 1603 or thereabouts. Federation is about an overarching authority above a group of states, as in America, where the federal and state legislatures and economies are separate bodies. At best we could have devolved authorities within the existing nation, but we aren't going to grant them all complete fiscal and legal independence, that would be fantasy. Hence "unworkable".

That's what colonists and communist leaders thought in the 20th Century. They were proved wrong.

Again, wrong. The closest we have to a self-maintaining country is Scotland. And they fail that test, in spades.

[SueEllen]

We don't have (or need) federation, we are a single nation state. And have been since 1603 or thereabouts. Federation is about an overarching authority above a group of states, as in America, where the federal and state legislatures and economies are separate bodies. At best we could have devolved authorities within the existing nation, but we aren't going to grant them all complete fiscal and legal independence, that would be fantasy. Hence "unworkable".

Tell the Austrians, Belgians and Bosnians that.

Or you could tell the Finns, Danish and Dutch who use a modified version.

Not wanting the status quo to change is fine, but saying something doesn't work where it is clearly working in both smaller and larger countries in Europe is silly.

[NotAllThere]

Unworkable. No single region could rsise enough income. We're not big enough.

I'll be sure to let the Swiss know their system is unworkable.

[Lance]

I'll be sure to let the Swiss know their system is unworkable.

Germany.

And the French mayoral system has quite a lot of autonomy.
UK is the outlier really with an over-centralised government.

I was always for stronger federal Europe, weaker Westminster, and stinger and effective local government.
But that ship departed in June 2016 (maybe to return after 2030)

[d000hg]

I'll be sure to let the Swiss know their system is unworkable.

That powerhouse of a nation.