Tax the childless

[Whorty]

It's not a solution or a political view. It's inevitable as soon as it becomes feasible. We had the first pass at it with modern factory processes. The only way to stop it is to ban it to force companies to hire people that could be done by machines.

This is why I said it's going to turn the whole world order upside down. If we no longer need everyone to work then the whole concept of employment will change. The question of who pays for it and how it's funded is entirely valid but what's narrow-minded is to try and dig your head in the sand and pretend it's not going to happen because 'what about your pension'.
In an automated world you might not even need much of a pension, as just one possibility.

It IS going to be a bumpy ride though.

Soooo, if it's such a certainty, then why do we need to breed the next generation of worker ants to prop up the needs of the current generation?

Not putting my head in the sand fella. Couldn't give two hoots personally. I have no offspring, so no skin in the game. It's the breeders here that need to worry about how their DNA bloodlines are going to survive in years to come.

[Whorty]

This isn't my one solution it is what is happening now , my solution is to manage it.

Automation is not going to ask permission its already in the door and laying the table, you are still deciding who to invite.

No, your solution is to talk and say nothing. You come up with lists of things that 'could' be automated. Throw out accusations that organisations aren't doing enough to automate everything, yet don't put your money where your mouth is. I don't see you setting up a company, with your own money, to move these ideas forward. It's always someone else's problem to solve .. as if you're somehow the ideas man

[Whorty]

The question is not whether he wants automation or his solution for pensions, the question is whether automation will be adopted (clearly yes if it saves money), how/if this will fundamentally change the concept of work, and what impact that will have.

Let's say we reach a situation where only 40% of us actually need to work because all the farming and manufacturing and so on is automated. Market forces will cause that to happen (unless governments artificially stop it) if it saves money and then there isn't enough money... something will have to give but what? Lots of sci-fi tries to address this and modern ideas like universal income are often touted but who knows.

Again, in a world where there are more people than jobs what do we do about it? This was feared a few decades ago of course and never happened. Maybe we'll invent a load more stupid jobs to keep everyone busy. Turning this into silly personal posturing is just dumb.

Don't forget though, in these sci-fi stories, these utopian 'worlds' are just one country. We live on a very diverse planet, where we are all at different stages of industrialisation and modernisation. It will be centuries and centuries before we get to any kind of total automation, and may need a world war to wipe out most humans before it happens.

In Vetty's head he thinks the UK can get there alone, or first, but that's not how the world works. The world is a (mostly) closed system and no one country or group of countries can ever hope to go it alone and succeed.

The theory behind all this is great, but I'd prefer to live in the real world. Yes we will continue to automate, history shows us it's inevitable, but we will still need certain jobs and people to do those jobs.

[NotAllThere]

Taxing the childless is exactly the same as giving tax breaks for having children. But the former cannot be countenanced.

The feckless poor will have children regardless and they don't even pay tax. Idiocracy here we come!

[SueEllen]

Taxing the childless is exactly the same as giving tax breaks for having children. But the former cannot be countenanced.

The feckless poor will have children regardless and they don't even pay tax. Idiocracy here we come!

Everyone pays VAT unless they don't buy any "luxury" goods and use any energy.

[Whorty]

Yes it was a bit of a tap-in. I suppose the solution to that problem is to abolish alcohol duty and contraception, the ugly only need to get lucky once...

Vetty got lucky more than once ... the mind boggles

[vetran]

No, your solution is to talk and say nothing. You come up with lists of things that 'could' be automated. Throw out accusations that organisations aren't doing enough to automate everything, yet don't put your money where your mouth is. I don't see you setting up a company, with your own money, to move these ideas forward. It's always someone else's problem to solve .. as if you're somehow the ideas man

actually I did a list of things that are currently being automated. Have a look outside your window.

What isn't being solved is the political will to confront this and plan for a future that accepts this. Far too many applying to be PM already Vet for PM does have a ring to it.

[vetran]

Vetty got lucky more than once ... the mind boggles

yep and with more than one woman.. they weren't even married.

[vetran]

Everyone pays VAT unless they don't buy any "luxury" goods and use any energy.

Vat won't save us

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-8513/




we need employees paying income related taxes.

That goes out the window with automation or cheap labour,

[ladymuck]

It's a ridiculous article, so why not have some fun with it. Obviously there are going to be anomalies and grey areas, so how would you answer the following? (I'm sure there will be others, feel free to add yours.)

If an only child dies, how long should HMRC wait before sending the grieving parents a tax bill?
Would infertile couples be able to claim a medical discount or exemption, or would it only apply to the infertile individual?
Is there an IR35-style appeals process for same-sex couples, and ugly people who can't get a partner?
If you find out your child isn't actually yours (Jeremy Kyle show stylee), will you have to pay back-dated tax in full immediately, or can it be spread over several years?
If a couple divorce, should the parent who fails to get custody be subsequently treated as childless from the date of the divorce?

I imagine the trans lobby will be spitting out their dummies

Initially, surrogacy could become a well-paid, high status job with the most desirable males being regularly milked and the output inseminated into highly desirable females. They would then be given the best medical care and housed in luxury. The children would either be bred to order or just put on the wholesale market.

Ultimately, the process would become automated and I can see that we would move away from human hosts for the foetus and put the fertilised eggs into Matrix-style pods stacked in shops where prospective parents can pay a fee take away the baby of their choosing to "birth" at home when it's ready.