Tax the childless

[DoctorStrangelove]

Coming soon?

[Whorty]

We don't need younger population we need to be a successful early adopter of automation.

I have sat there looking at huge factories that were either automated and offshored in the last 30 years. In the next 30 I expect many staff volumes to decrease.

Easy / current automation projects

1. Picking fruit & vegetables - can be almost completely automated now , needs funding to automate.
2. Front of house in takeaways/shops - app or kiosk.
3. Street cleaning - drones.
4. take away and parcel delivery - drones,
5. construction - factory built/printed buildings
6. Dog walking - drones
7. bus / taxi / train driving automated vehicles.
8. monitoring old people - done via alexa etc.
9. Warehouse - drones/robots.
10. Baggage handling - drones/robots.
11. cooking in takeaway - robots/dispensers,

in 10 years there will be few unskilled & semi skilled jobs left.

You are missing one of the key issues here ... people pay tax, to pay for (amongst other things) state pensions. If we automate everything, who is going to fill the government coffers?

You one and only solution is to automate everything. Maybe try to think a little bit wider and still being so narrow in your views.

[vetran]

You are missing one of the key issues here ... people pay tax, to pay for (amongst other things) state pensions. If we automate everything, who is going to fill the government coffers?

You one and only solution is to automate everything. Maybe try to think a little bit wider and still being so narrow in your views.

This isn't my one solution it is what is happening now , my solution is to manage it.

Automation is not going to ask permission its already in the door and laying the table, you are still deciding who to invite.

[Whorty]

Who pays the taxes to fund your pension and your care?

The UK economy is a form of ponzi scheme, it requires a growing younger population and growing tax revenues to feed to the top (the elderly, those requiring care, etc). If population growth slows down, then the scheme falls apart.

You beat me to it ....

And police, councils etc etc etc .... poor Vetty thinks all his comes for free

[d000hg]

You are missing one of the key issues here ... people pay tax, to pay for (amongst other things) state pensions. If we automate everything, who is going to fill the government coffers?

You one and only solution is to automate everything. Maybe try to think a little bit wider and still being so narrow in your views.

It's not a solution or a political view. It's inevitable as soon as it becomes feasible. We had the first pass at it with modern factory processes. The only way to stop it is to ban it to force companies to hire people that could be done by machines.

This is why I said it's going to turn the whole world order upside down. If we no longer need everyone to work then the whole concept of employment will change. The question of who pays for it and how it's funded is entirely valid but what's narrow-minded is to try and dig your head in the sand and pretend it's not going to happen because 'what about your pension'.
In an automated world you might not even need much of a pension, as just one possibility.

It IS going to be a bumpy ride though.

[d000hg]

You beat me to it ....

And police, councils etc etc etc .... poor Vetty thinks all his comes for free

The question is not whether he wants automation or his solution for pensions, the question is whether automation will be adopted (clearly yes if it saves money), how/if this will fundamentally change the concept of work, and what impact that will have.

Let's say we reach a situation where only 40% of us actually need to work because all the farming and manufacturing and so on is automated. Market forces will cause that to happen (unless governments artificially stop it) if it saves money and then there isn't enough money... something will have to give but what? Lots of sci-fi tries to address this and modern ideas like universal income are often touted but who knows.

Again, in a world where there are more people than jobs what do we do about it? This was feared a few decades ago of course and never happened. Maybe we'll invent a load more stupid jobs to keep everyone busy. Turning this into silly personal posturing is just dumb.

[SueEllen]

The question is not whether he wants automation or his solution for pensions, the question is whether automation will be adopted (clearly yes if it saves money), how/if this will fundamentally change the concept of work, and what impact that will have.

Let's say we reach a situation where only 40% of us actually need to work because all the farming and manufacturing and so on is automated. Market forces will cause that to happen (unless governments artificially stop it) if it saves money and then there isn't enough money... something will have to give but what? Lots of sci-fi tries to address this and modern ideas like universal income are often touted but who knows.

Again, in a world where there are more people than jobs what do we do about it? This was feared a few decades ago of course and never happened. Maybe we'll invent a load more stupid jobs to keep everyone busy. Turning this into silly personal posturing is just dumb.

It will likely happen again.

Also some of the things Vetran mentions that can be automated e.g. retail won't be simply because people don't like it Have you been inside one of those Amazon shops? They are empty. The ones I have been inside are near Tesco Metros and other small shops that have queues in them, but I know from talking to people that part of the reason people go to shops is for interaction with other human beings even if they don't want to interact with a cashier.

[Mordac]

I see you covered the personally important stuff!

Yes it was a bit of a tap-in. I suppose the solution to that problem is to abolish alcohol duty and contraception, the ugly only need to get lucky once...

[vetran]

You beat me to it ....

And police, councils etc etc etc .... poor Vetty thinks all his comes for free

Obviously it doesn't, someone pays for your carer. But low wage, low tax employees are not going to be able to pay for it.

Automation is coming we need to work out how to win at it.

[WTFH]

Obviously it doesn't, someone pays for your carer. But low wage, low tax employees are not going to be able to pay for it.

Automation is coming we need to work out how to win at it.

Maybe we should automate your posts on CUK. Get a Wail headline generator instead of you.