The new prime minister is.....

[SueEllen]

I'm trying to look past the smear and see what some of them are about and I have to say where I thought Penny M might be a worthy candidate I've gone right off her now. Not the solid candidate I thought she might be,

There is nothing about her so she can be anything you want her to be.

[Fraidycat]

"Sky News has cancelled the third scheduled TV debate in the Conservative leadership race after Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss pulled out of the event following a bruising set of exchanges in the first two debates."

Not sure why they needed so debates many in the first place

[d000hg]

I'm trying to look past the smear and see what some of them are about and I have to say where I thought Penny M might be a worthy candidate I've gone right off her now. Not the solid candidate I thought she might be,

I wonder if she's just inexperienced in the TV spotlight, clearly Rishi and Liz have done this a lot and it showed a bit. All other things equal, the argument for someone who has substantial experience in a top cabinet position makes sense but of course all other things aren't equal so it's quite tough to decide if you'd want to take a bit of a punt on someone who you think is ideologically better and/or a better character, but might flounder in the job.

I agree Penny (and Kemi and Tom) didn't really say very much but then they probably said no less than the other two, they just didn't dress it up as well! Perhaps that is a plus for people sick of polished PR-trained politicians.

I thought it was interesting that:

• While Rishi went to Winchester and Oxford he's not part of the old-boys club or from a rich family (middle-class comfortable professional immigrant parents) and seems to have done this on merit
• Liz is from oop north, born to professional working left-wing parents and went to a comp (or similar)
• Penny has a 2:1 from Reading (first in her family to go to uni) and her parents were both teachers
• Tom seems to be from more of a 'classic Tory' background but did his degree at Bristol
• Kemi is also a child of immigrants, went to unremarkable schools/uni and had a normal job

While Rishi is daubed as an elitist super-wealthy Tory thanks to his wife and several of them went to Oxford, we don't have a single Eton/Oxbridge silver-spoon type of the type we're told "all Tories" are. I'm not sure if that's unusual or that the stereotype is actually just not very accurate amidst Tory MPs generally right now. Not a single old white man either.

[WTFH]

Mordaunt must be doing something right, as the Express & Mail seem to be attempting a hatchet job on her, and there's a campaign to "Bring Back Boris", must be something to do with traitors, etc.

[malvolio]

I wonder if she's just inexperienced in the TV spotlight, clearly Rishi and Liz have done this a lot and it showed a bit. All other things equal, the argument for someone who has substantial experience in a top cabinet position makes sense but of course all other things aren't equal so it's quite tough to decide if you'd want to take a bit of a punt on someone who you think is ideologically better and/or a better character, but might flounder in the job.

I agree Penny (and Kemi and Tom) didn't really say very much but then they probably said no less than the other two, they just didn't dress it up as well! Perhaps that is a plus for people sick of polished PR-trained politicians.

I thought it was interesting that:

• While Rishi went to Winchester and Oxford he's not part of the old-boys club or from a rich family (middle-class comfortable professional immigrant parents) and seems to have done this on merit
• Liz is from oop north, born to professional working left-wing parents and went to a comp (or similar)
• Penny has a 2:1 from Reading (first in her family to go to uni) and her parents were both teachers
• Tom seems to be from more of a 'classic Tory' background but did his degree at Bristol
• Kemi is also a child of immigrants, went to unremarkable schools/uni and had a normal job

While Rishi is daubed as an elitist super-wealthy Tory thanks to his wife and several of them went to Oxford, we don't have a single Eton/Oxbridge silver-spoon type of the type we're told "all Tories" are. I'm not sure if that's unusual or that the stereotype is actually just not very accurate amidst Tory MPs generally right now. Not a single old white man either.

I wouldn't describe Truss as a "polished PR-Trained performer", and if she was trained she should get money back. What she does have is plenty or real world experience ad some genuine successes under her belt.

None of the others, Rishi included, can claim that, much less demonstrate it. Sunak's sole success over furlough was almost certainly driven by Boris and his later screw ups on tax and total blind spot about the effects of inflation are, to my mind, disqualifying factors.

Penny is proving unreliable and the accusation of lack of attention to detail (aka embellishing the truth, aka lying...) should disbar her. We've had enough of that lately.

Kemi knows nothing much, Young Tom knows nothing at all.

For many years, if you wanted to a director of PCG, all you had to do was be a woman, since all woman candidates were routinely elected by the CC. I have a worrying idea that the Tory MPs will take a similar approach and put pretty Penny up next to Liz or Rishi for no more reason than she looks good, in which case the party will elect Rishi. But if they do the sensible thing for once and put Liz against Rishi, then she is the next PM; the wider party have no love for Rishi.

To be honest none of the above are genuine PM material. The Tories are rapidly realising they have already had and lost their best candidate (or candidates is you include Wallace)

[d000hg]

For the "other 3" not winning is really not a major problem though of course, this is great experience.

I am disappointed none of them seem to have an answer to "what will you do about people who can't afford to fill their cars or heat their homes" that isn't "rebuild the economy over the next several years". There was some waffle about fuel VAT but without something serious, this winter is going to be terrible. What are they saying now, energy prices to go up 60% in Autumn?

It might not be terribly conservative but it seems to me direct government intervention is going to be needed. A few tax cuts - or even giant ones - are not going to help those who pay barely any tax. All those people successive governments have 'lifted out of tax' (and those on benefits) are not going to be helped except by either getting prices down or hand-outs. A very sticky wicket for whoever ends up in charge of this mess.

[d000hg]

The next live TV Tory leadership debate has been cancelled, after host Sky News said Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss declined to take part.

The two contenders clashed repeatedly during a debate on Sunday over each other's economic plans and record in office.

It comes amid concerns in the Tory party about infighting in the contest.

I was reading in the news what a "terrible bitter farce" the debate was and already thinking that was massively overblown.

Maybe the final 2 should challenge Kier to a televised debate before the party vote.

[malvolio]

For the "other 3" not winning is really not a major problem though of course, this is great experience.

I am disappointed none of them seem to have an answer to "what will you do about people who can't afford to fill their cars or heat their homes" that isn't "rebuild the economy over the next several years". There was some waffle about fuel VAT but without something serious, this winter is going to be terrible. What are they saying now, energy prices to go up 60% in Autumn?

It might not be terribly conservative but it seems to me direct government intervention is going to be needed. A few tax cuts - or even giant ones - are not going to help those who pay barely any tax. All those people successive governments have 'lifted out of tax' (and those on benefits) are not going to be helped except by either getting prices down or hand-outs. A very sticky wicket for whoever ends up in charge of this mess.

Which is why reducing VAT in a targeted manner is the sensible answer. It will drop prices without being inflationary, it could take a slice out of fuel costs and be seen as a positive and immediate response by the wider public. In reality it wouldn't even cost that much, given higher prices are returning higher VAT payments to the coffers already so we would probably get back to the status quo ante as regards income.

Long term answers are really not appropriate for once.

[d000hg]

Which is why reducing VAT in a targeted manner is the sensible answer. It will drop prices without being inflationary, it could take a slice out of fuel costs and be seen as a positive and immediate response by the wider public. In reality it wouldn't even cost that much, given higher prices are returning higher VAT payments to the coffers already so we would probably get back to the status quo ante as regards income.

This might be helpful but it's not going to solve anything. Far too little. People were being pushed into poverty before all this, since the energy companies all toppled. Since then the cap has gone up hugely again and is going to go up another 60%. Even removing VAT entirely would still leave many products costing more and prices continue to rise due to external factors.

Removing/cutting VAT also doesn't target those more who need it more. Realistically while I am dreading spending several thousand pounds on gas this winter I can afford to - guess we don't go on holiday next year. I am still buying takeaways and going to the pub and buying luxury products like meat. I do not need cuts, much as I like to moan about it. CUK is probably largely in a similar position. I'd rather help was targeted but how to do that without just giving out cash I don't know.
Could/are 'saver' supermarket brands be given VAT exempt status, or something?

We really need a moderate government who is willing to consider emergency measures that seem a bit 'red'.

[d000hg]

Forgot to post this... seems Penny impressed nobody at the weekend: