Chauvin Verdict

[vetran]

In the UK the ethnicities you listed while they are also considered "model minorities" are also good at organised crime including modern slavery.

When they end up being taken to Court and given hefty sentences they rarely make the front page/main news of the day. This again drives the perception that none of them are criminally minded.

I therefore doubt the same minorities in the US are less criminally minded they are just choose crimes that aren't normally targeted.

Oh I'm sure some nasty people swim under the radar but less in this group are convicted so either they are better at not getting caught or they don't commit crimes. There isn't enough information.

However it is clear that some minorities get caught 4 times as often as whites, sadly these are the same minorities that die three times as often.

[OwlHoot]

Maybe for arrest, but I doubt it. The chance of dying due to police action for whites is about 0.04%, for blacks about 0.1% over a lifetime. wrong. https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Thats a 2.5 greater chance.

Whoever they are, they greatly increase their chances by being bolshy and obstreperous!

But it appears the guy in this case was calmly resisting being crammed into the back of a small vehicle, on account of his claustrophobia, or so he claimed.

I also think the comments by the bystanders probably didn't help, despite their best intentions, because they prompted Chauvin, in his irritation at being "heckled", to defiantly and obstinately double down (literally) on his unconventional restraint technique.

[NotAllThere]

Oh I see now. Black people are inherently more likely to be criminals, and it's their own fault if they get shot.

Me? I'm not racist. My cat is black.

[Lost It]

Well again it comes down to states of poverty over there doesn't it?
people get to live in cardboard boxes over their too, isn't there a correlation between poverty and crime?
Drugs and their usage, the price of drugs means people don't make the right choices, Snow isn't only for use by rich computer programmers is it?

I seem to recall that most break ins in this country are by people trying to "earn" their next fix, and as always the obvious answer is to make all drugs legal and tax them accordingly to remove this "method" of making money for criminals.

There would need to be strict rules, if you are going to be a user yoiu give up your driving licence for instance, but it would kill that particular industry straight away.

It would be interesting to know if the crime rate in canada dropped once they allowed the use of cannabis?

The side effects of this particular conviction seems to be that a lot of Police officers realising they have no real protection if it all goes TU are now resigning. That is fallout they don't need over there.

Not saying it's a black or a white or any other "race type" problem, but these officers are up against it in the rougher area's, drugs, guns, gangs, why would you want to put your freedom at risk catching people who might be drugged up, gun toting criminals? Because if it goes

Innocent until proven guilty is a nice idea but it's frankly not true.

[Gibbon]

Whoever they are, they greatly increase their chances by being bolshy and obstreperous!

I read in the Times the other day (sorry can't find it now, but was on page 2) that a barrister type said in his personal experience black people tend to get longer prison sentences in the UK because they also tend to plead not guilty, disregarding their lawyers advice. Not saying that's the only reason, but is a contribution to at least some cases.

[Lost It]

Bit of a messed up system where if you admit something you get a smaller sentence though? Financial reasons I guess.

Encouraging the innocent to please guilty to get a smaller "reward"? Thats sound reasoning.

[vetran]

Oh I see now. Black people are inherently more likely to be criminals, and it's their own fault if they get shot.

Me? I'm not racist. My cat is black.

No Black people are 4 times more likely to be imprisoned and 3 times more likely to die at the hands of the police. That needs to be investigated and the causes solved. As usual its complicated.

So many possible causes some people think its due to poverty, a predisposition to crime possibly due to lack of respect of law, cultural expectations (Asians become doctors and..) think of another cause if you can but the figures say there is a problem we need to solve an taking a knee or paying people to be black isn't the solution.

My possible solutions are

1. Encourage at risk youths of all colours to become a useful member of society from an early age.
2. Make Police brutality and serious complaints a federal matter to prevent a local cover up. They would also centralise blame and the statistics.
3. Investigate the reasons for disparity of outcomes publish the results and implement change. If a certain type of kids are stabbing other kids over drugs (as seems to be the case in the UK) then work out how to fix this (clue see suggestion 1)
4. Use taser first not a gun or prolonged forcible human restraint. If George Floyd had died whilst resisting arrest and therefore being tasered then the police using the taser would be cleared. You can get shotgun tasers that have a longer range.
5. Change the stop and restraint procedures. from my viewpoint if they had shackled GF to a lamp post and called reinforcements or a larger medical van he may have survived or he would have died in less suspicious circumstances. You notice the prison service use full shackles and attach prisoners to the table so obviously the experts in prisoner restraint don't believe handcuffs are enough.

Make sure treatment is clearly the same regardless of ethnicity.

[NotAllThere]

No Black people are 4 times more likely to be imprisoned and 3 times more likely to die at the hands of the police. That needs to be investigated and the causes solved. As usual its complicated.

Absolutely. US society is really screwed up when it comes to race relations. And their police seem to have less accountability than in more civilised countries - checkout qualified immunity and the issues with that.

[vetran]

Absolutely. US society is really screwed up when it comes to race relations. And their police seem to have less accountability than in more civilised countries - checkout qualified immunity and the issues with that.

It is similar in most countries its supposed to allow Police officers (and other government officers) to push the edge of legality within the moral framework imposed by the Police force. You can sleep with an informant using an assumed name while under cover if it improves your chance of making arrests, you can pay a known criminal money for information. The Police still assume responsibility and pay out if challenged. They also dismiss people who overstep the mark.

Compare that with the blanket immunity you get in the diplomatic service or just by working for the EU.

Making it a Federal crime should solve that immunity (IANAAL).

Still doesn't solve African Americans over achieving in the crime stats? I still doubt that the entire US legal system is so racist that 4 times more get imprisoned.

Most of those that died were known to the Police over many years.

[DealorNoDeal]

I wouldn't fancy being a cop in some parts of America. There must be a significant risk, every single day, of getting seriously injured, or killed, in the line of duty.

You've probably got be a bit of a hard bastard to survive that. Maybe even a bit of a head case to want to keep doing it.

Some may be racist. Maybe, in some neighbourhoods, the risk of getting injured at the hands of a black offender is much higher, or at least the perception is.

There may be a simple answer to explain it (eg. systemic racism) but maybe not.