How not to treat...

[SueEllen]

women at a vigil.

Due to the on-going Court case this thread is only about not sending police officers, particularly male ones, to arrest women at a vigil over men's violence to women.

Oh and the local borough police in Lambeth were over ruled by the commissioners in the Met in allowing an official vigil to go ahead.

People do have a right to protest under Covid restrictions but it needs to be done in a Covid secure way. The Met refused to co-operate with the organisers so they cancelled the official vigil leading to this ad-hoc vigil. It is well-known that if you want to control how people meet up you make sure there is an official event with marshals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56389824

The head of the Met Police is under pressure to explain her officers' actions during a vigil in south London on Saturday in memory of Sarah Everard.
Police were seen grabbing and leading women away from the event in handcuffs.

London Mayor Sadiq Khan said he was "urgently seeking an explanation" from Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick, while Home Secretary Priti Patel has asked the Met for a report on what happened.

Ms Patel is expected to receive the report by the end of Sunday.

Police said four arrests were made at the vigil to "protect people's safety".

Several hundred people gathered on Clapham Common on Saturday evening to pay tribute to 33-year-old - whose death has prompted a public debate over women's safety - despite Covid restrictions.

The official vigil had been called off earlier in the day after organisers said the force had failed to "constructively engage" on how it could be held in a Covid-secure way.

One video posted online showed officers removing women who were standing by the bandstand.

Cries of "shame on you" and "let them go" could be heard from onlookers. The video showed them being put in a police van and driven away.

Jamie Klingler, from Reclaim These Streets, which had been organising the official vigil, said the event would have been "a lot safer" if it had been held officially, adding the group had 50 stewards who were "trained and ready to go".

"We told the Met that it was going to be worse if we didn't have the organisation that we already had planned that was Covid-safe," she said.

The group added in a statement that it was "deeply saddened and angered" by the police's actions and criticised officers for "physically manhandling women at a vigil against male violence".

The Met defended its response to the vigil, saying it was "only responsible thing to do" to ensure public safety. But the force added that a review will be carried out to see if "lessons can be learned".

[malvolio]

Can't help thinking this is a bit arse about face. Which bit of the lockdown rules do these hundreds of people not understand? Yes the police shouldn't have used force, but equally the people being forced shouldn't have resisted an entirely legal and justified request to disperse.

Heigh ho...

[SueEllen]

There is still a legal right to protest even though we are in a pandemic.

And due what caused the protest, Scotland Yard should have talked to the organisers as it would have prevented so many people turning up.

The vigils in other cities in the UK aren't in the news because the police forces in those areas engaged with organisers of those vigils.

[vetran]

The organisers cancelled it, many people did a virtual vigil, however people turned up against expert and police advice.

The Police commander made the decision (rightly or wrongly but note the courts failed to make it) that public health & order was at risk.

The Policemen (male & female) asked people to disperse, they refused so the Police had little choice but to fine them or remove them by force. That is their job.

Now its being presented as we are marching into a Police state.

Admittedly a Police officer has been arrested in connection with the original death which is vey sad and makes the situation more delicate.

If it had been an EDL or UKIP march you would be demanding more truncheon use and arrests. Guilt & intent is something the courts should decide but so many people instantly KNOW who is guilty it is the fate of the social media generation.

Having been on a jury even supplied with copious evidence, I was still not sure and neither were the other 11, the judge stopped the trial on a procedural issue and we were all very relieved.

[ladymuck]

Considering the strength of feeling about this the only outcome, of the Met not working with the official organisers and the official gathering subsequently being cancelled, was going to be an unofficial gathering that would lead to the action taken.

The Met could have very easily avoided this if they had been willing to work out a covid safe way for this to take place.

[malvolio]

Considering the strength of feeling about this the only outcome, of the Met not working with the official organisers and the official gathering subsequently being cancelled, was going to be an unofficial gathering that would lead to the action taken.

The Met could have very easily avoided this if they had been willing to work out a covid safe way for this to take place.

As could all those who turned up in breach of the current law. A doorstep protest or something similar would have been equally effective and probably gained positive support from all sides.

Yes you can demonstrate, obviously, if it involves no more than two people outdoors. They put the police in an impossible position.

(And yes, I know it was a vigil, whatever that means, not a demonstration)

[ladymuck]

As could all those who turned up in breach of the current law. A doorstep protest or something similar would have been equally effective and probably gained positive support from all sides.

Yes you can demonstrate, obviously, if it involves no more than two people outdoors. They put the police in an impossible position.

(And yes, I know it was a vigil, whatever that means, not a demonstration)

You can demonstrate with any number of people as long as covid safe measures are followed - outside, spread out, masked up, etc.

I would like to think that the majority of people attending didn't want it turn into the farce it did and, as with most things, only a minority kicked off.

What I do wonder, which you touched on, is how a vigil turned into a demonstration. I think the tipping point occurred when the speeches started.

[BlueSharp]

From FB.

I debated for hours whether to post this or not.......

I've read lots of tweets and posts over the last week, and especially in the last 24 hours which have made me angry, sad, furious, shocked, mortified, confused, and just plain pissed off.

As ever the police are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Don't enforce the law = massively criticised / hammered in the media.
Do enforce the law = massively criticised / hammered in the media.

Ask yourself what are they supposed to do? Coronavirus legislation is what it is, we are still in the middle of a global pandemic, and 10's of thousands of people have died as a result, directly or indirectly depending on which view you take of Covid.
But the fact is the rules are laid out, as per the wishes of the government. And they are there ultimately to attempt to keep us safe. The task of enforcing these laws (as always) falls to the police, along with everything else they've got to do.
So again, what are they supposed to do? Enforce the law, or don't enforce the law. They will be hammered either way. Can't win.

What happened to Sarah Everard was utterly horrific. And it goes without saying i completely understand the strength of feeling towards the case and the issues raised. The sad reality is what we all saw last night was the blatant hijack of a vigil (which had been rightly told not to go ahead and backed by the courts) by activists, anti-police agitators, opportunists with ulterior motives and those hell bent on causing a disturbance. All under the ever present camera lenses of those with other agendas.
Spraying "All Coppers Are Bastards" on a police van is not supporting Sarah's family.
Shouting "No justice, no peace" is not supporting Sarah's family.
Holding up "Defund the Police" banners is not supporting Sarah's family.
Unfortunately a reaction was sought by some, a reaction was had (through the clear disregard of the law, public safety, call it what you will), and the aftermath perfectly timed and captured for the media to lap up and farm out.

I know who WAS supporting Sarah's family though. The police family liason officer's, sticking by them throughout the most awful time of their entire life.
The investigation team which has worked and IS working tirelessly to put the person responsible for this horrific act behind bars.

And let it be said right now, if it even needed saying: NOBODY HATES BAD COPS AS MUCH AS GOOD COPS.
They go against every oath we hold dear. They ARE NOT us.

Last night could have been and should have been a huge outpouring of support for Sarah, with doorstep candlelit vigils across the country in scenes like we saw with "clap for our NHS heroes" albeit an unbelievably sad reason on this occasion.
But in all the noise and smoke, the real message and the real show of support has been lost, as we woke up to celebrities, government officials and the *media lambasting the police.

*The utterly poisonous mainstream media quite literally, day in day out, wake up with the seemingly sole intention of dividing people, and causing hate.
In any way they can, they sow the seeds of hate between us, whether it be race, religion, gender, anything. Because it generates clicks, and in turn money.

We're at a point now where the police are always seen as the villain. My inbox has been pinging away with calls of "murderers" and "scum". We're so quick to forget names like Wayne Marques, Ian Dibell, David Whyte, Keith Palmer, Nicola Hughes, Fiona Bone, Stephen Oake, Sharon Beshenivsky and many others. Who risked everything and in some cases gave everything to try and keep us safe.

I don't know where this all ends up. I don't even know why i wrote this. Maybe i'm just sick and tired of hearing the one sided narrative, and want to try and give a voice to the "silent" majority.

Don't get me wrong, we are NOT perfect, never claimed to be. We're only human and can / will make mistakes, it would be hugely naive to think otherwise. But we're not the enemy.

I guess i'll sign off by saying this is only my opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of the police, although in amongst the handful of likes and comments it will inevitably get, i just hope the message gets through.

[Whorty]

Personally, I think the met are led by incompetent idiots. They knew that not allowing the official vigil would still result in many turning up to protest. And who can blame women protesting? A PR disaster for the met, again. Do they not have the intelligence to see the irony of their actions?

There was an official vigil held in Bristol. Supported by the local police and completely peaceful.

[PCTNN]

Cops are just incompetent idiots filled with toxic masculinity.

When there's a peaceful vigil against a woman who was by the way murdered by a police pig...completely unnecessary use of violence.

The week before, when a hord of drunken troglodytes celebrated the Glasgow rangers title win...the useless cops celebrated with them and did nothing.

Utter disgrace.