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The Official Budget 2021 thread

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    #21
    Originally posted by mogga71 View Post

    What freelance workers? Does he not realise that IR35 has massively reduced the self-employed numbers or does he mean something else?
    Er, self-employed workers are not subject to IR35, which is a tax on employment disguised by intermediaries. He’s talking about raising class 4 NI on self-employed workers.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by OwlHoot View Post

      This is absolutely true, and as you say elites have benefited relative to the rest of us. But the prime cause is not their greed or rapacity etc but globalisation caused by collective choices indirectly made by us all.

      The middle class in western countries is being hollowed out, and the prosperity they would have continued to enjoy has been and still is being spread to former so-called third world countries.

      Each time any of us buys a cheap new gadget made in China for example, we're making our economic problem worse (_and_ in the case of China adding to the threat its hostile resurgence and growing power poses, as bad as the Nazis in the 1930s)
      I think there is a misunderstanding among those that are rich. It is very likely that you are rich. Yes, there are always richer people, but it is likely that many posters here reading this are in the top 1% of UK earners. Naturally they/we will moan about people earning even more, but I'm afraid that in the terms of lower and middle earners they would look at us and say: You can jump from job to job, earn a lot of money, you never have to worry about money, the IFS says you're rich: you are rich.

      I have to say that in comparison to those young people then we are rich and they are correct. IFS for people like us:

      In conclusion, Your income is so high that you lie beyond the far right hand side of the chart.

      https://www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_res..._do_you_fit_in

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by agentzero View Post

        I think there is a misunderstanding among those that are rich. It is very likely that you are rich. Yes, there are always richer people, but it is likely that many posters here reading this are in the top 1% of UK earners. Naturally they/we will moan about people earning even more, but I'm afraid that in the terms of lower and middle earners they would look at us and say: You can jump from job to job, earn a lot of money, you never have to worry about money, the IFS says you're rich: you are rich.

        I have to say that in comparison to those young people then we are rich and they are correct. IFS for people like us:

        In conclusion, Your income is so high that you lie beyond the far right hand side of the chart.

        https://www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_res..._do_you_fit_in
        I think you have a pretty wonky understanding of these statistics. The far right of that chart is about £60k pa, which doesn't even meet Labour's test of "rich" at £70k pa (and that is for an individual, not a household)

        A 1% earner was bringing in about £175k before tax in the 2017-18 tax year, probably closer to £200k now. There will be many people here bringing in much less than that. Furthermore, most contractors take a moderate salary and build a warchest for when they're out of work.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
          An article in iNews raised a wry smile.

          To quote:



          To summarise the situation, even if you are lucky enough to get outside IR35 determinations for contracts, if you don't have multiple concurrent contracts, they're coming for you anyway.

          What I find so funny is that I know plenty of consultancies and software houses I worked for earlier in my career who relied on one major client for all of their work, once the client went, so did your job (if you were stupid enough to stay realising the precariousness of said company). In reality, how are these companies any different?

          I hate to tell Rishi this, but the goose that laid the golden egg that he likes to keep raiding, has stopped production...
          Cue a raft of new threads on how my mate the contractor can pay me, and vice versa, so that we have 2 clients each.

          PLACEHOLDER
          See You Next Tuesday

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

            I think you have a pretty wonky understanding of these statistics. The far right of that chart is about £60k pa, which doesn't even meet Labour's test of "rich" at £70k pa (and that is for an individual, not a household)

            A 1% earner was bringing in about £175k before tax in the 2017-18 tax year, probably closer to £200k now. There will be many people here bringing in much less than that. Furthermore, most contractors take a moderate salary and build a warchest for when they're out of work.
            Precisely this.

            I've spent years building up a decent warchest for lean times and one thing the new rules will do (if forced via umbrella/PAYE/FTC/etc) is make it that bit harder.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by mogga71 View Post

              What freelance workers? Does he not realise that IR35 has massively reduced the self-employed numbers or does he mean something else?
              THe number of freelance workers has been reduced by a combination of IR35 plus:
              1. The pandemic. Some have had to change jobs/careers completely. I know of taxi drivers who are now cleaners and delivery staff for supermarkets.
              2. B**** They have left the country permanently
              "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post

                Precisely this.

                I've spent years building up a decent warchest for lean times and one thing the new rules will do (if forced via umbrella/PAYE/FTC/etc) is make it that bit harder.
                'Rich' is a relative term and means different things to different people, but to the average Brit they would consider most successful contractors as rich.

                We talk about taking a 'minimum' wage, but added to divs and most of us still take £40k a year. We then talk about our 'war chest' as if this isn't really our income. The average Brit earns less than £40k a year, has less job security than a successful contractor, and would love to be able to save into a warchest for that rainy day.

                Now, I'm not saying we are 'rich' compared to the typical Tory MP, but we are considerably richer than the average Brit. To pretend otherwise is not cool when so many have so little.

                I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man

                Comment


                  #28
                  £175k is £800 a day and in the top 10% of earners. Top 1% is £688,000.

                  https://www.contractorcalculator.co....ctorCalculator

                  Maybe I am skint but I don't know that many contractors on that kind of money. I suspect most of the contracting posters on here are in the top 25% of earners not in the top 10%.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income..._by_occupation

                  Even then we are a lot better off than most.
                  Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by vetran View Post
                    £175k is £800 a day and in the top 10% of earners. Top 1% is £688,000.

                    https://www.contractorcalculator.co....ctorCalculator

                    Maybe I am skint but I don't know that many contractors on that kind of money. I suspect most of the contracting posters on here are in the top 25% of earners not in the top 10%.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income..._by_occupation

                    Even then we are a lot better off than most.
                    Wealth not earnings. If you have £688288 (2004 figures) in total wealth then you're in the top 1%.



                    The net worth information is based on data from HMRC for 2004-2005 and includes marketable assets including house equity, cash, shares, bonds and investment trusts. These values do not include personal possessions.
                    Top 1% £688,228 21% of total UK wealth
                    2% £460,179 28% of total UK wealth
                    5% £270,164 40% of total UK wealth
                    10% £176,221 53% of total UK wealth
                    25% £76,098 72% of total UK wealth
                    50% £35,807 93% of total UK wealth

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by ChimpMaster View Post

                      Wealth not earnings. If you have £688288 (2004 figures) in total wealth then you're in the top 1%.



                      The net worth information is based on data from HMRC for 2004-2005 and includes marketable assets including house equity, cash, shares, bonds and investment trusts. These values do not include personal possessions.
                      Top 1% £688,228 21% of total UK wealth
                      2% £460,179 28% of total UK wealth
                      5% £270,164 40% of total UK wealth
                      10% £176,221 53% of total UK wealth
                      25% £76,098 72% of total UK wealth
                      50% £35,807 93% of total UK wealth
                      oops thanks.

                      still £175K a year for a 1% is out of most people's reach and £70K is a significant amount but £500 a day so many contractors don't reach that far.
                      Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                      Comment

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